Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3BC0F38000110; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 13:47:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1QvYZZ-0004Fh-6r for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 18:46:05 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1QvYZY-0004FY-KP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 18:46:04 +0100 Received: from mhost02h.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.77.151]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1QvYZW-0003x6-F1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 18:46:04 +0100 Received: from APOLLO1.ds.leeds.ac.uk (apollo1.leeds.ac.uk [129.11.5.4]) by mhost02h.leeds.ac.uk (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p7MHjuJF021180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 18:45:56 +0100 (BST) Received: from HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([fe80::39ce:23e:d0b5:7e24]) by APOLLO1.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.5.4]) with mapi; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 18:45:56 +0100 From: Chris Trayner To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 18:45:55 +0100 Thread-Topic: LF: Re: Re: Ferrite wideband antennas? Thread-Index: Acxg81fdZgNoSXfkSXm8zusoGNrbhA== Message-ID: <006947C8-2F72-4793-9F3C-1501CDE5F8D6@leeds.ac.uk> References: <16BC8B3CA8672445BC2A29B4C14A26D4379ED2AAB4@exlnmb01.eur.nsroot.net> <4DF9EFD1.5010208@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <1313780109.51443.YahooMailNeo@web111907.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <9CD1E11E8BC9402CB4AECECAC4088443@JimPC> <00f801cc6004$c2282bd0$1502a8c0@Clemens04> <004801cc6055$87313f20$4001a8c0@lark> <1313971196.2595.7.camel@pat-compaq-evo> <035601cc6065$67f3dc20$66a5fe04@ctrask>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Ferrite wideband antennas? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:484186368:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cd4e52961b5dac X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none Dear All, >From an engineering point of view, a scientific theory does not have to be = true. It just has to be useful. When a scientist builds a bridge it will collapse, but the scientist can pe= rfectly explain why it collapsed. When an engineer builds a bridge it will = not collapse, but the engineer will not have a clue why it does not collaps= e. I'm afraid some of these homely sayings seem to me to miss some of the poin= ts. If you have a 'theory' (e.g. a set of equations) which works, but you don't= understand why (or it's not true), then it's potentially dangerous. 'It wo= rks' means that it works under the set of circumstances where it has been t= ested. You could use it outside those circumstances and not realise you had= done so. A scientist explaining bridge collapse isn't trying to build a good bridge:= (s)he is playing a different game (albeit one that may later benefit bridg= e building). An engineer who doesn't understand why their bridge stays up (i.e. hasn't b= othered to undserstand the theory properly) may have built a bridge that wi= ll later collapse under unpredicted circumstances. Traditional electr(on)ic engineering had many areas where you can work well= from simple theories and experience. You can choose an audio inter-stage c= oupling capacitor like that. But modern engineering also has many areas whi= ch are far more complicated - you can't design stripline by rule of thumb a= nd feel (unless you've designed something very similar before), nor 3-phase= AC-to-AC converters handling hundreds of megawatts. "For now I see the true old days are gone." Cue chorus of old-timers blamin= g it on beat music and the lack of capital punishment. Actually, I think th= ey are still here; it's just that the forefront of electronics nowadays is = the far more complicated stuff. Fortunately, as radio amateurs, we set our = own agendas and can choose to work in whatever part of that spectrum we wis= h. 73, Chris G4OKW ----------------------- Dr Chris Trayner School of Electronic & Electrical Engineering, The University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom Tel: +44 113 34 32053 Fax: +44 113 34 32032