Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.201]) by air-dd09.mail.aol.com (v129.10) with ESMTP id MAILINDD094-86b14df270102dc; Fri, 10 Jun 2011 15:27:12 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mg01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0F68938000091; Fri, 10 Jun 2011 15:27:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1QV7LP-0008B1-LE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Jun 2011 20:26:11 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1QV7LO-0008As-SD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Jun 2011 20:26:10 +0100 Received: from blu0-omc1-s8.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.19]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1QV7LN-0001zo-1E for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Jun 2011 20:26:10 +0100 Received: from BLU153-W25 ([65.55.116.7]) by blu0-omc1-s8.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 10 Jun 2011 12:26:02 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [216.137.237.71] From: Laurence KL7UK To: Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 11:26:01 -0800 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: References: <4DF11A78.4020401@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <001901cc2743$81695dc0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <4DF207EF.5060700@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <003801cc276e$63c6f1d0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <4DF24806.7030508@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <004601cc2791$72c3d680$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf>, MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jun 2011 19:26:02.0388 (UTC) FILETIME=[3C21F540:01CC27A4] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_913b0a2d-42ba-44c0-89f0-38be1e822e83_" Subject: RE: LF: Re: First tests on VLF at DK7FC in Heidelberg X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60c94df2700d7450 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_913b0a2d-42ba-44c0-89f0-38be1e822e83_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ...and if its the glass Coca Cola Bottle - they are used "professionally" = in Africa and some other parts of the world as base/side insulators in even= some Government HF/MF systems :-) Laurence KL7UK Not so sunny Wasilla Alaska > From: m0wye@radiouk.com > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 19:58:30 +0100 > Subject: Re: LF: Re: First tests on VLF at DK7FC in Heidelberg >=20 > PET - Polyester - is a recognised capacitor dielectric, and not particula= rly=20 > lossy. > I don't see why it shouldn't work - as long as you drink the cola first. > 73 > Hugh M0WYE >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "mal hamilton" > To: > Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 6:11 PM > Subject: Re: LF: Re: First tests on VLF at DK7FC in Heidelberg >=20 >=20 > > Stefan > > Using LOSSY coca cola bottles as a dielectric is not recommended and po= or > > stability makes things worse!!!!!!!!! > > With this information I do not think a QSO is possible > > de mal/g3kev > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" > > To: > > Cc: "Paul" ; "Bernd Grupe" > > > > Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 5:36 PM > > Subject: Re: LF: Re: First tests on VLF at DK7FC in Heidelberg > > > > > > After a break i am back on air in this moment transmitting a long > > carrier. The signal generator is the DDS VFO, so stability is not > > perfect but should be suitable for 424 uHz i hope. It is a very first=20 > > test. > > > > When using the antenna wire with maximum L i currently have available, > > the resonance is at 9.64 kHz, not to far away. I built a capacitor out > > of 2 aluminium plates and 2 coca cola bottles and come to resonance now > > on 8970 Hz. Before is used the bottles, i used stones. But they became > > HOT and later there was a black hole into them sparking around! These > > losses reduced the antenna power to less than 200 mA. Now i have about > > 500 mA antenna current and will transmit a longer dash until i see some > > traces on the grabbers, hopefully. > > > > When running the system without external addional C, so on 9.64 kHz, i > > am getting 360 mA antenna current at 80 W PA input power. The coil > > losses are 320 Ohm so the sourrounding losses seem to be about 300 Ohm > > which is not to much, thinking about trees and buildings... > > > > Now, i'll TX for some time, maybe 2 hours ort so. > > > > Any reports so far? > > > > 73, Stefan/DK7FC > > > > > > Am 10.06.2011 15:00, schrieb mal hamilton: > >> Stefan > >> My monitor is running/Speclab dfcw600 es Antenna 150 metre inv L up ov= er > > 33 > >> metres vertical. Condx all bands Good at present > >> > >> de mal/g3kev > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" > >> To: > >> Cc: "Paul"; "Bernd Grupe" > >> > >> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 1:02 PM > >> Subject: Re: LF: Re: First tests on VLF at DK7FC in Heidelberg > >> > >> > >> Hello Mal, VLF, > >> > >> OK, i am actually RX QRV on LF all the time here. And i have internet > >> during the test! :-) > >> > >> Now, the coil is on the roof and it's dry. I will prepare now... Maybe > >> the first VLF antenna current in a 20 minutes... > >> > >> 73, Stefan/DK7FC > >> > >> > >> Am 10.06.2011 09:53, schrieb mal hamilton: > >> > >>> Stefan > >>> I will leave my monitor on 8970 DFCW 600 mode. If I detect your signa= l I > >>> will reply on 137.7 CW or QRS3. > >>> 73 De Mal/G3KEV > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" > >>> To: > >>> Cc: "Paul"; "Bernd Grupe" > >>> > >>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 8:09 PM > >>> Subject: VLF: First tests on VLF at DK7FC in Heidelberg > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> VLF, > >>>> > >>>> Tomorrow i plan to do first tests on 8970 Hz on my fixed antenna in > >>>> Heidelberg, > >>>> http://no.nonsense.ee/qthmap/?qth=3DJN49IK00WG&from=3Djn49ik00WD It = is=20 > >>>> about > >>>> 30m up. > >>>> > >>>> I'll start doing some resonating tests and may come on air in the > >>>> afternoon. The small PA (max. 300W) will be used in this first test > >>>> since it is easier to manage. Maybe the resonance will be some kHz > >>>> higher but i hope to come down into the Dreamers Band (TM). > >>>> > >>>> I expect to be visible on "local" grabbers like DF6NM, OE3GHB and > >>>> OK2BVG. If all works well i plan to transmit a longer dash, maybe 60= 00 > >>>> seconds and later a short message in DFCW-600, like "K" or so, just = for > >>>> the proof and to get a first impression about the efficiency of this > >>>> antenna. > >>>> > >>>> I had the idea to buy some flexible aluminium tube to form a toroid=20 > >>>> that > >>>> will be placed on the top of the coil. Tis reduces the maximum E fie= ld > >>>> and adds some C, that might be needed to come down to 8970 Hz... > >>>> > >>>> Of course all this depends on the absence of rain but now i don't ne= ed > >>>> wind! Therefore, the signals will be about 20 dB lower, probably. > >>>> > >>>> The signal will be overload my grabber > >>>> http://www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de/schaefer_vlf/DK7FC_VLF_Grabber.html > >>>> that is in about 20 m (!) distance. Hopefully it gets not damaged du= e=20 > >>>> to > >>>> several 10 kV on the wire. > >>>> > >>>> Is there someone who will watch for that signal? > >>>> > >>>> Reports would be very apprechiated! > >>>> > >>>> 73, CU, Stefan/DK7FC > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > >=20 >=20 >=20 =3D --_913b0a2d-42ba-44c0-89f0-38be1e822e83_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ...and if  its the glass Coca Cola Bottle - they are used "professiona= lly" in Africa and some other parts of the world as base/side insulators in= even some Government HF/MF systems :-)

Laurence KL7UK
Not so sun= ny Wasilla Alaska

> From: m0wye@radiouk.com
> To: rsgb_lf_g= roup@blacksheep.org
> Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 19:58:30 +0100
> S= ubject: Re: LF: Re: First tests on VLF at DK7FC in Heidelberg
>
&= gt; PET - Polyester - is a recognised capacitor dielectric, and not particu= larly
> lossy.
> I don't see why it shouldn't work - as long a= s you drink the cola first.
> 73
> Hugh M0WYE
>
> =
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mal hamilton" <g3k= evmal@talktalk.net>
> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
= > Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 6:11 PM
> Subject: Re: LF: Re: First= tests on VLF at DK7FC in Heidelberg
>
>
> > Stefan<= br>> > Using LOSSY coca cola bottles as a dielectric is not recommend= ed and poor
> > stability makes things worse!!!!!!!!!
> >= With this information I do not think a QSO is possible
> > de mal= /g3kev
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > = From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
&= gt; > To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
> > Cc: "Paul" &= lt;paul@abelian.netcom.co.uk>; "Bernd Grupe"
> > <bernd.grup= e@t-online.de>
> > Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 5:36 PM
> = > Subject: Re: LF: Re: First tests on VLF at DK7FC in Heidelberg
>= >
> >
> > After a break i am back on air in this mome= nt transmitting a long
> > carrier. The signal generator is the DD= S VFO, so stability is not
> > perfect but should be suitable for = 424 uHz i hope. It is a very first
> > test.
> >
>= > When using the antenna wire with maximum L i currently have available= ,
> > the resonance is at 9.64 kHz, not to far away. I built a cap= acitor out
> > of 2 aluminium plates and 2 coca cola bottles and c= ome to resonance now
> > on 8970 Hz. Before is used the bottles, i= used stones. But they became
> > HOT and later there was a black = hole into them sparking around! These
> > losses reduced the anten= na power to less than 200 mA. Now i have about
> > 500 mA antenna = current and will transmit a longer dash until i see some
> > trace= s on the grabbers, hopefully.
> >
> > When running the sy= stem without external addional C, so on 9.64 kHz, i
> > am getting= 360 mA antenna current at 80 W PA input power. The coil
> > losse= s are 320 Ohm so the sourrounding losses seem to be about 300 Ohm
> &= gt; which is not to much, thinking about trees and buildings...
> >= ;
> > Now, i'll TX for some time, maybe 2 hours ort so.
> &g= t;
> > Any reports so far?
> >
> > 73, Stefan/DK= 7FC
> >
> >
> > Am 10.06.2011 15:00, schrieb mal= hamilton:
> >> Stefan
> >> My monitor is running/S= peclab dfcw600 es Antenna 150 metre inv L up over
> > 33
> &= gt;> metres vertical. Condx all bands Good at present
> >>> >> de mal/g3kev
> >>
> >> ----- Origin= al Message -----
> >> From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer"<Stefan.Schaef= er@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
> >> To:<rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org>
> >> Cc: "Paul"<paul@abelian.netcom.co.uk>; "B= ernd Grupe"
> >> <bernd.grupe@t-online.de>
> >&g= t; Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 1:02 PM
> >> Subject: Re: LF: Re= : First tests on VLF at DK7FC in Heidelberg
> >>
> >&g= t;
> >> Hello Mal, VLF,
> >>
> >> OK, i= am actually RX QRV on LF all the time here. And i have internet
> &g= t;> during the test! :-)
> >>
> >> Now, the coil= is on the roof and it's dry. I will prepare now... Maybe
> >> = the first VLF antenna current in a 20 minutes...
> >>
> &= gt;> 73, Stefan/DK7FC
> >>
> >>
> >>= Am 10.06.2011 09:53, schrieb mal hamilton:
> >>
> >&g= t;> Stefan
> >>> I will leave my monitor on 8970 DFCW 600= mode. If I detect your signal I
> >>> will reply on 137.7 C= W or QRS3.
> >>> 73 De Mal/G3KEV
> >>>
>= ; >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Ste= fan Sch=E4fer"<schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
> >>> T= o:<rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
> >>> Cc: "Paul"<p= aul@abelian.netcom.co.uk>; "Bernd Grupe"
> >>> <bernd.= grupe@t-online.de>
> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 8:= 09 PM
> >>> Subject: VLF: First tests on VLF at DK7FC in Hei= delberg
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
&= gt; >>>
> >>>> VLF,
> >>>>
= > >>>> Tomorrow i plan to do first tests on 8970 Hz on my fi= xed antenna in
> >>>> Heidelberg,
> >>>>= ; http://no.nonsense.ee/qthmap/?qth=3DJN49IK00WG&from=3Djn49ik00WD It i= s
> >>>> about
> >>>> 30m up.
> = >>>>
> >>>> I'll start doing some resonating = tests and may come on air in the
> >>>> afternoon. The sm= all PA (max. 300W) will be used in this first test
> >>>>= since it is easier to manage. Maybe the resonance will be some kHz
>= >>>> higher but i hope to come down into the Dreamers Band (TM= ).
> >>>>
> >>>> I expect to be visible= on "local" grabbers like DF6NM, OE3GHB and
> >>>> OK2BVG= . If all works well i plan to transmit a longer dash, maybe 6000
> &g= t;>>> seconds and later a short message in DFCW-600, like "K" or s= o, just for
> >>>> the proof and to get a first impressio= n about the efficiency of this
> >>>> antenna.
> &g= t;>>>
> >>>> I had the idea to buy some flexible= aluminium tube to form a toroid
> >>>> that
> >= ;>>> will be placed on the top of the coil. Tis reduces the maximu= m E field
> >>>> and adds some C, that might be needed to= come down to 8970 Hz...
> >>>>
> >>>> = Of course all this depends on the absence of rain but now i don't need
&= gt; >>>> wind! Therefore, the signals will be about 20 dB lower= , probably.
> >>>>
> >>>> The signal wi= ll be overload my grabber
> >>>> http://www.iup.uni-heide= lberg.de/schaefer_vlf/DK7FC_VLF_Grabber.html
> >>>> that = is in about 20 m (!) distance. Hopefully it gets not damaged due
> &= gt;>>> to
> >>>> several 10 kV on the wire.
&= gt; >>>>
> >>>> Is there someone who will wat= ch for that signal?
> >>>>
> >>>> Repor= ts would be very apprechiated!
> >>>>
> >>>= ;> 73, CU, Stefan/DK7FC
> >>>>
> >>>>= ;
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> &g= t;>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
= =3D --_913b0a2d-42ba-44c0-89f0-38be1e822e83_--