Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.217]) by air-mb01.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMB012-a0784d8379de28a; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 11:27:26 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-df05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 8A2413800009A; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 11:27:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Q0bZN-0002uG-3r for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 15:26:29 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Q0bZM-0002u7-Gg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 15:26:28 +0000 Received: from nm18-vm0.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.183.95]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Q0bZK-0000xl-T9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Mar 2011 15:26:28 +0000 Received: from [217.146.183.181] by nm18.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2011 15:26:21 -0000 Received: from [217.146.183.62] by tm12.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2011 15:26:21 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1031.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 18 Mar 2011 15:26:21 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 283108.10881.bm@omp1031.mail.ukl.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 90585 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2011 15:26:21 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=DKIM-Signature:Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=EfCIEjWabJYu2Smnf8DMCUukrlLVNPTCHAqpMmh0Iak7WpEX57bpVtPYm2J0c59fjClD3zHRSf8WO0Tc1Cr5gPVwoqsOwvDuuFe8XBx8A6x/oTUgR9LfS0H4UsG4C2dgxU5z4MwYnF92jBOPTlawwnHWwlxNwVAANDcWZ7jjBaQ= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btopenworld.com; s=s1024; t=1300461980; bh=dHTRCKDDPLw9yiAIub+sz4V2yVJwSWiiT1oWhB0QkkQ=; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=S//RU063QRjPORkkw4HSehwpu2oh8b3li07w3nVijsKp4Y6QxOOE9kutFqIYi07PAuYsoHTV3q3LQvnz0MoSoggduMOSLuT2zFQOlJT5fw4C9x4jyCcmPrmsrWg3FLI+eZKLvEoqPMZQiqf6YAmAYFBnyZGpKeUitwr2teykg+4= Received: from JimPC (james.moritz@86.176.86.80 with login) by smtp820.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Mar 2011 15:26:20 +0000 GMT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Cxhli3eswBD1ozmtAojhjrja86kWx0Qm9tycD5QR1DKWrOLgjJcXkw-- X-YMail-OSG: nc5yhgsVM1kofk.COrrWt6JdCacIV1L.LVrQDV31pHLf1e9 1JE3JL4Y92zVgmcCuxagUUO8KtpELousDyQNvGiej0ehoaMslRR3M1uHTQl6 4jsZtjxEVxRGuVf4v.vKw8mI.A8AP1ZQEqjorA480ABQDXFMjNR33sHbbCd0 8R7r18hi2eCPkhEx7euKbwHtmZNxgVr9LS2u6WC0zyfdEK9WEe0LEp20ilVP EfZG6JzJCVsLzwGqP8.dKpS2ixoA6Np0JBuyU X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <59F87B1BA5D04A2F98902CF94C38DB30@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 15:26:21 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18263 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: Loop TX antennas at VLF? Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d296.2 ; domain : btopenworld.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40d94d8379db0ecb X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none Dear Roger, LF Group, > Just wondering if anyone has done the maths to work out what sort of ERP > could be expected at 8.97kHz with, say, 100W to a smallish loop antenna in > the garden? A 10m x 10m, 100m^2 loop of "thickish" 3mm dia solid wire would have a resistance at 9kHz of roughly 0.1ohm. With 100W available, 32A antenna current should be possible, assuming negligible tuning capacitor losses. Inductance would be of the order of 40uH. A tuning capacitor of roughly 8uF would be needed. The radiation resistance of an electrically small loop is: 320 * pi^4 * A^2 / (lambda)^4, where A = area, lambda = wavelength for 100m^2 at 9kHz, Rrad is about 250 pico-ohms (!) The ERP is then 1.8 * I^2 * Rrad, about 0.45uW So pretty low, but with a bit bigger loop and a bit more power, it would seem to be competitive with small verticals of a similar size. This is perhaps mainly because of the serious losses present in loading coils that people have been able to make for verticals, combined with high voltage limitations of fairly short wire antennas, and high environmental losses of various types also due to high electric fields. The voltage in this example would only be about 70V. So might be worth trying for "back garden" experiments (assuming your antenna masts can support thick enought wire!), although I think it would not be competitive for bigger balloon/kite supported vertical antennas. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU