Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.205]) by air-de07.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDE074-5ebd4d8716e73a7; Mon, 21 Mar 2011 05:14:15 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id F0CA3380000B8; Mon, 21 Mar 2011 05:14:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Q1bAn-0002uZ-Us for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Mar 2011 09:13:13 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Q1bAn-0002uQ-EB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Mar 2011 09:13:13 +0000 Received: from yoda.london.02.net ([82.132.130.151] helo=mail.o2.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Q1bAk-0007qS-Oh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Mar 2011 09:13:13 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.65] (46.64.39.147) by mail.o2.co.uk (8.5.119.05) (authenticated as g3ldo@o2.co.uk) id 4C9F76EE2C0CB607 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Mar 2011 09:13:04 +0000 Message-ID: <4D8716A2.1020506@o2.co.uk> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 09:13:06 +0000 From: Peter Dodd User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110303 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4D83CAEE.2060305@freenet.de> <3D88D5AFC0094751A8CA041C9700D50E@JimPC> In-Reply-To: <3D88D5AFC0094751A8CA041C9700D50E@JimPC> X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Frequency Stability Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60cd4d8716e50aed X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Dear James and LF group, I have one of these units but was unable to find out any info on the internet. I figured the DDS section OK and used it to set up the receiver for T/A tests some time ago. I am no longer active on LF so am looking for a home for the PFS-1 I can be contacted on Regards Peter, G3LDO > > I have been playing around with the insides of a Halcyon PFS-1 > Droitwich-derived frequency standard over the last few days, and some > observations might be of interest. > > The Receiver part of the PFS-1 is an off-air frequency standard that > generates 10MHz, 5MHz and 1MHz outputs from the received 198kHz > carrier, and is quite similar to the Quartzlock 2A device on Ebay. It > has an external ferrite rod antenna, a single crystal 198kHz filter, > limiting amplifier and a PLL which locks a 10MHz VCXO to the 198kHz > signal. Most of the time it stays locked, but sometimes it becomes > unlocked for a few minutes at a time, for reasons unknown. The 10MHz > output is switched off when this happens. > > The rest of the PFS-1 is a DDS synthesiser that covers 0 - 16MHz in > 100uHz steps. It has an internal 20MHz OCXO module, which is phase > locked to the 10MHz reference from the receiver when that is present, > and is otherwise free-running, at a frequency which is calibrated via > a fine-tuning trimpot. The OCXO is a HCD71 module, which has specified > ageing rate <1E-8 per day. The OCXO module in isolation seems to do > much better than that, but when my PFS-1 was free-running, I found the > stability was rather worse. After poking around inside, I think this > is partly due to the trimpot used (a 20k, 22 turn component - these > things are not great in my experience, not very stable and with a lot > of backlash in the adjustment), and partly due to the circuit > connected to the OCXO frequency control input, which is the PLL > amplifier/loop filter, with the addition of some switching that, when > the external reference is removed, sets the frequency control voltage > using the trimpot, another resistor and a 78L09 regulator IC. > > Bearing in mind that 1 part in 10^8 requires the 0-6V frequency > control voltage to be held stable to within 1mV or less, this needs > quite a good, stable, bias voltage and pot to achieve the > specification. I have now modified my unit to use the 6V output from > the OCXO module and a 10k, 10 turn helipot on the front panel, with a > CMOS switch to select the PLL output when operating. This seems to > have improved the free-running stability significantly. > > It is interesting to compare the free-running OCXO output to the 10MHz > locked receiver output on an oscilloscope. Once the OCXO is trimmed, > the phase of one waveform "walking" relative to the other shows > frequency differences down to the parts-per-billion level quite > easily. It seems the 198kHz carrier has some kind of cyclical drift in > phase which occurs over a period of a minute or two (the receiver PLL > seems to filter out the faster phase modulation data), so the > direction of "walking" changes from time to time. > > For using the PFS-1 as a frequency source for high stability signals > over periods of hours, it seems to me it would be better to operate > the synthesiser part in "unlocked" mode, and periodically trim the > OCXO frequency using the receiver part. Otherwise, there are bound to > be glitches in phase when it switches between off-air reference and > OCXO, as it does from time to time. Also the observed wobbling phase > of the 198kHz carrier, plus any ionospheric effects around darkness > hours, would be reflected in the synthesiser output. The same possibly > applies to the Quartzlock 2A. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > >