Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.132]) by air-mb07.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMB072-a7854d5ff8d82c9; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 12:07:36 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dc04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E134E38000081; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 12:07:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PqqGe-0006Wy-F6 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:06:48 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PqqGd-0006Wp-Ug for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:06:47 +0000 Received: from blu0-omc1-s2.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PqqGc-0004Yg-0z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:06:47 +0000 Received: from BLU146-DS15 ([65.55.116.7]) by blu0-omc1-s2.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sat, 19 Feb 2011 09:06:39 -0800 X-Originating-IP: [216.137.224.88] X-Originating-Email: [hellozerohellozero@hotmail.com] Message-ID: From: Laurence KL7UK To: References: <007501cbd04d$2690bcb0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf>, <00a101cbd054$234a8e30$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> In-Reply-To: <00a101cbd054$234a8e30$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:06:36 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3508.1109 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V15.4.3508.1109 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Feb 2011 17:06:39.0173 (UTC) FILETIME=[5F6A5F50:01CBD057] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: Antennas es power Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01CBD057.5E0E2AB0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40844d5ff8d612e7 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CBD057.5E0E2AB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mal =E2=80=93 well done on receiving on 9khz but my interest is greate= r - and a plot of 1-24Khz or higher would help me and others see the= kind of levels and signal to noise you, on your antennae system, in= your part of Lancashire compares with mine over here so I can move to= wards that direction. Doesn=E2=80=99t take but a few mins but I unders= tand if you don=E2=80=99t want to help.=20 As one that has operated at a VLF commerical tx/rx research station in= the 70=E2=80=99s let me tell you on some days there was little to no= difference in transmitted signals =E2=80=93 we certainly had days whe= n our ERP=E2=80=99s were less than Stefan and Ossis=E2=80=99 (!) 73 ps At this time DHO38 is the weakest Ive seen it over the pole =20 From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 4:43 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Antennas es power Laurence there is a BIG difference between radio amateur transmitted= signals and Commercial operators Regarding LF plots, suffice it to say that if you read my message you= will see that I can copy OE5ODL on 9 Khz in a qrs 3 window. and supplied screen shots for verification. What is the point sending a 1 - 24 Khz plot also I use narrow band rec= eption not wideband. Mal/G3KEV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Laurence KL7UK=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 4:27 PM Subject: RE: LF: Antennas es power =20 "proper elevated antenna is wasted time except one is content with= a few kilometres coverage, and..."=20 Mal - try telling that to the Russian, US, Chinese Mi$#tary and Anta= rctic VLF research stations that - they appear to have other effective= solutions to radiate VLF or lower globally and are certainly not ele= vated in some forms :-) =20 Ill still be very interested in my request for your wideband VLF plo= ts Mal - even if its just over a couple of hours from 1Khz to 24KHz sa= y - more if you have it. I just dont know how your view of VLF is in= NE England, near that beautiful county of Lancashire. =20 Cheers Laurence KL7 UK aka G4DMA et al =20 ----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- From: john.rabson@numeo.fr Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:10:58 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Antennas es power On 19 Feb 2011, at 16:53CET, mal hamilton wrote: On VLF es LF especially, using anything but a proper elevated ant= enna is wasted time except one is content with a few kilometres covera= ge, and=20 earth probe inductive/conduction devices are only good for Cave Di= vers. Wrong. They are used by cavers generally, not just divers, and dive= rs usually only use radio when they come up for air. John F5VLF ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CBD057.5E0E2AB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mal =E2=80=93 well done on receiving on 9khz but my interest is= greater - and a=20 plot of 1-24Khz or higher would help me and others see the kind= of levels=20 and signal to noise you, on your antennae system, in your part of Lanc= ashire=20 compares with mine over here so I can move towards that direction. Doe= sn=E2=80=99t take=20 but a few mins but I understand if you don=E2=80=99t want to help.
 
As one that has operated at a VLF commerical tx/rx research stati= on in the=20 70=E2=80=99s let me tell you on some days there was little to no diffe= rence in=20 transmitted signals =E2=80=93 we certainly had days when our ERP=E2=80= =99s were less than Stefan=20 and Ossis=E2=80=99 (!)
 
73
ps At this time DHO38 is the weakest Ive seen it over the pole&nb= sp;
 
From: mal hamilton
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Antennas es power
 
Laurence there is a BIG difference be= tween radio=20 amateur transmitted signals and Commercial operators
Regarding LF plots, suffice it to say= that if you=20 read my message you will see that I can copy OE5ODL on  9 Khz in= a =20 qrs 3 window.
and supplied screen shots for=20 verification.
What is the point sending a 1 - 24 Kh= z plot also I=20 use narrow band reception not wideband.
Mal/G3KEV
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Laurence KL7UK
Sent: Saturday, February 19,= 2011 4:27=20 PM
Subject: RE: LF: Antennas es= power
 
 
"proper elevated anten= na is wasted=20 time except one is content with a few kilometres coverage, and..."= =20

Mal - try telling that to the Russian, US, Chinese Mi= $#tary and=20 Antarctic VLF research stations that - they appear to have other eff= ective=20 solutions to radiate VLF or lower  globally and are certainly= not=20 elevated in some forms :-)
 
Ill still be very interested= in my=20 request for your wideband VLF plots Mal - even if its just over a co= uple of=20 hours from 1Khz to 24KHz say - more if you have it. I just dont know= how your=20 view of VLF is in NE England, near that beautiful county of=20 Lancashire.
 
Cheers Laurence
KL7 UK aka G4DMA et=20 al
 
From: john.rabson@numeo.fr
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 17:10:58 +0100<= BR>To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Antennas es power
On 19 Feb 2011, at 16:53CET, mal hamilton wrote:

On VLF es LF=20 especially,  using anything but a proper elevated antenna is= wasted=20 time except one is content with a few kilometres coverage, and=20

earth probe=20 inductive/conduction devices are only good for Cave=20 Divers.
Wrong.  They ar= e used by=20 cavers generally, not just divers, and divers usually only use radio= when they=20 come up for air.
 
John F5VLF

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