Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.152]) by air-mc05.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMC051-a9674d5a8ab4d4; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 09:16:21 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dd12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5746C38000094; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 09:16:19 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PpLgL-000514-RY for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 14:15:09 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PpLgL-00050v-55 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 14:15:09 +0000 Received: from cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PpLgJ-0006ax-5P for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 14:15:09 +0000 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBF857B8070 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 15:14:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N4.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n4.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.14]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id C499031E702 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 15:14:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N4.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.14]) with mapi; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 15:14:53 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 15:14:53 +0100 Thread-Topic: =?Windows-1252?Q?Re:_LF:_Re:_RE:_Alignment_of__(Narrow_Band)_DATA__and__W?= =?Windows-1252?Q?SPR__frequency=92s_on_the__500_KHz__band.?= Thread-Index: AcvNFAFSzUJVHqCeRUy5gXRDsQsICwABeqa3 Message-ID: References: <6AD920D46A4546ECB1E0FF76E739307C@AGB> <002d01cbcd02$77e22890$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf>,<443580.35039.qm@web28106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <443580.35039.qm@web28106.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,SUBJECT_ENCODED_TWICE=1.543 Subject: =?Windows-1252?Q?RE:_Re:_LF:_Re:_RE:_Alignment_of__(Narrow_Band)_DATA__an?= =?Windows-1252?Q?d__WSPR__frequency=92s_on_the__500_KHz__band.?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C88B050FEB4ICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40984d5a8ab223bd X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C88B050FEB4ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pete, I agree that there is no need for strickt regulation (and certainly no ove= rregulation). But some agreements to "live and let live" will help. At least to me it ma= kes sense that automated operations happen at the band edges (as it is don= e now most of the time). I am afraid that the "wild west" will lead to will lead to wild west situa= tions (where often a lot of fighting is involved). Regarding 501-504kHz: this is certainly not UK only. Also ON, PA, OK and= EA are limited to this band. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens M0FMT [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk] Verzonden: dinsdag 15 februari 2011 14:23 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: LF: Re: LF: Re: RE: Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR fr= equency=92s on the 500 KHz band. I operate a low power Beacon on 501.15kc/s so I bag that frequency now. I= have already been shooed off 500 at week ends, but to bag the frequencies= I guess it needs to stay on 24/7. I also some times operate at the upper= band edge so I bag that frequency also. I will be issuing a list of my fa= vourite frequencies to bagsy them as well shortly. Rik .. EU station have plenty of channels outside the UK 501 / 504 to play= on. This is the RSGB style channelisation of 2/70 in the early 70's all over= again. IMHO this band should be like the Wild West no, "no go" areas. 73 es GL petefmt ________________________________ From: mal hamilton To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Tue, 15 February, 2011 11:21:19 Subject: LF: Re: RE: Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency=92= s on the 500 KHz band. This seems a sensible approach. Time division. Keep to the same freq in ti= me slots. g3kev ----- Original Message ----- From: Rik Strobbe To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: Joe Taylor Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 7:23 AM Subject: LF: RE: Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency=92s on= the 500 KHz band. Hello Graham, I would suggest to have all digital modes as close as possible to the band= edges, leaving the band centre for CW. For WSPR there are currently 2 segments: one for EU stations to transmit= on (503.9kHz +/- 100Hz) and one NA stations to transmit on (501.1kHz +/-= 100Hz) to avoid local QRM (or better said RX overload). So 503.7kHz +/- 100Hz and/or 501.3kHz +/- 100Hz for other digimodes ? It would be possible to have a single data segment for EU and NA it we go= from frequency division to time division: if all EU stations would transm= it in the xx:00-xx:02, xx:04-xx:06, xx:08-xx:10 ... time slots and all NA= stations in the xx:02-xx:04, xx:06-xx-08 ... time slots they can use the= same frequency without local QRM. But this would require a minor chang in the WSPR software (and maybe also= other software). 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens Graham [g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk] Verzonden: dinsdag 15 februari 2011 2:20 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org CC: Joe Taylor Onderwerp: LF: Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency=92s on= the 500 KHz band. Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency=92s on the 500 KHz= band. The original wspr frequency 502.4 was defined as the working frequ= ency to utilise the =91clean=92 area just under the 504 harmonic, wh= ilst avoiding the various beacons running across the 501/504 band= at the time. However, time has moved on and there are now numerous =91di= al setting=92s=92 in use both sides of the Atlantic. Due to an apparent increase in the side band noise from the 504 sig= nal , possibly by enhanced propagation , the ROS MF (100 hz b/w) work= ing frequency is to be re defined as 500 USB dial set giving a cent= re carrier frequency of 501.500 Due to Ae bandwidth and perhaps alignment with other band=92s,= I would suggest the original WSPR 502.4K is replaced with the low= er frequency of 495.9K , thus restoring the System=92s coverage and= facilitating changes of mode etc within a narrow bandwidth. I don=92t see this detracting from the monitoring of spot frequency= beacons over 505Khz , but more appropriate to transmitting station= s , which by the nature of the antenna arrays are not able comfortab= ly to qsy from top to bottom of the band without re-tuning, not = always a simple option. Comments or suggestions please ?. Graham G0NBD --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C88B050FEB4ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Pete,
 
I agree that there is no need for strickt regulation (and certainly= no overregulation).
But some agreements to "live and let live" will help. At le= ast to me it makes sense that automated operations happen at the band edge= s (as it is done now most of the time).
I am afraid that the "wild west" will lead to will lead to= wild west situations (where often a lot of fighting is involved).
Regard= ing 501-504kHz: this is certainly not UK only. Also ON, PA, OK and EA are= limited to this band. 
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T
 
Van: owner-rsgb_= lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens M0FMT= [m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk]
Verzonden: dinsdag 15 februari 2011 14:23
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: LF: Re: LF: Re: RE: Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and= WSPR frequency=92s on the 500 KHz band.

I operate a low power Beacon on 501.15kc/s so I bag that frequen= cy now. I have already been shooed off 500 at week ends, but to bag= the frequencies I guess it needs to stay on 24/7. I also some times= operate at the upper band edge so I bag that frequency also. I will be issuing a list of my favourite frequencies to bagsy= them as well shortly.
 
Rik .. EU station have plenty of channels outside the UK 501 / 504 to= play on.
 
This is the RSGB style channelisation of 2/70 in the early 70's all= over again. IMHO this band should be like the Wild West no, "no go&q= uot; areas.
 
73 es GL petefmt


From: mal hamilton <g3k= evmal@talktalk.net>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org
Sent: Tue, 15 February, 20= 11 11:21:19
Subject: LF: Re: RE: Align= ment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency=92s on the 500 KHz band.

This seems a sensible approach. Time division.= Keep to the same freq in time slots.
g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 7:= 23 AM
Subject: LF: RE: Alignment of (Narr= ow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency=92s on the 500 KHz band.

Hello Graham,
 
I would suggest to have all digital= modes as close as possible to the band edges, leaving the band centre for= CW.
For WSPR there are currently&nb= sp;2 segments: one for EU stations to transmit on (503.9kHz +/- 100Hz)= and one NA stations to transmit on (501.1kHz +/- 100Hz) to avoid loca= l QRM (or better said RX overload).
So 503.7kHz +/- 100Hz and/or 501= .3kHz +/- 100Hz for other digimodes ?
It would be possible to have a singl= e data segment for EU and NA it we go from frequency division to time divi= sion: if all EU stations would transmit in the xx:00-xx:02, xx:04-xx:06,= xx:08-xx:10 ... time slots and all NA stations in the xx:02-xx:04, xx:06-xx-08 ... time slots they can use the same freq= uency without local QRM.
But this would require a minor chang= in the WSPR software (and maybe also other software).
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T
 
Van: owner-rsgb_= lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Graham= [g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk]
Verzonden: dinsdag 15 februari 2011 2:20
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
CC: Joe Taylor
Onderwerp: LF: Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency= =92s on the 500 KHz band.

Alignment of  (Narrow Band) DATA  and  WSPR  frequenc= y=92s on the  500 KHz  band.

=  

= The  original wspr frequency   502.4  = was  defined  as the  working  frequency  to  utilise the  =91clean=92 area  = just under the  504  harmonic, whilst avoiding the  various  beacons  running  across&= nbsp; the  501/504  band at the  time. How= ever, time has moved on and there are now numerous =91dial setting=92s=92= in use both sides of the Atlantic.

=  

= Due to  an apparent  increase  in the  side band  noise  from the  504 signal ,= possibly by  enhanced  propagation , the  ROS  MF  (100 hz b/w) working  frequ= ency is  to be re defined as  500  USB dial  set  giving a  centre&nbs= p; carrier  frequency of 501.500  

=  

= Due  to  Ae  bandwidth and  perhaps  alignment  with   other   band=92s,  I   would  suggest the= original WSPR  502.4K is  replaced  with the  lower frequ= ency  of  495.9K , thus  restoring the  S= ystem=92s  coverage and  facilitating  changes  of mode etc within a  narrow bandwidth.

=  

= I don=92t  see  this  detracting  from the monitoring  of spot  frequency  beacons  over 505Khz , but more  appropriate   to  transmit= ting  stations , which  by the  nature of the  antenna= arrays are  not  able  comfortably&nb= sp; to  qsy  from  top  to  bottom of the  band without  re-tuning, not  always a  simple = option.

=  

= Comments  or  suggestions please ?.

=  

= Graham

= G0NBD

=  




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