Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mc09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mc09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.81]) by air-mb07.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMB074-a7a84d5a60383f; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 06:15:04 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mc09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 11FC6380000A0; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 06:15:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PpIrB-0002kt-KK for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:14:09 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PpIrB-0002kk-0v for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:14:09 +0000 Received: from mail-gw0-f43.google.com ([74.125.83.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PpIr7-0005GM-PE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:14:08 +0000 Received: by gwb17 with SMTP id 17so15671gwb.16 for ; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 03:13:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Izn6T+wj5Yx90NJiG1Gol17itTROuLcvH7694NQ9S6E=; b=giW5HY/UPzHrK2Rp3kxK+aCpzA6H7MslZpnLeag5shiY0i8dDAIQOY3xrE3ngmOHS4 FDlSBwlp31UkQaMaq+WDwi3JfXI+tbdGXo1sWWdv51IfQaCF/tEbiLgjCAUaPvq6v5BV A8iqggIjUgvZ9+tD/kh6INPezzSxWvDguH0IU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=AjdvZN1tt9+T1t2N7CMIgPOBN3Vquosh65+zScGN+ITaK5cVLQa3ipsAH9DEoXnsTY lXSW6l1DDHjFe/MTzqwfhcNp1RGhPTo17K+gW1jmCLPXA9kGyNAqj87cxAOgwxtZmu8S dnxVu6krCJTQla6egjiR3xH1/7LFDBPbIojjw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.248.13 with SMTP id v13mr2127614anh.56.1297768439373; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 03:13:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.172.10 with HTTP; Tue, 15 Feb 2011 03:13:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <574378.8641.qm@web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> References: <6AD920D46A4546ECB1E0FF76E739307C@AGB> <574378.8641.qm@web28105.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:13:59 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: rxtaVvYUuVVo0S9RPPLLHDz6CJw Message-ID: From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 2.9 (++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_OBFUSCATE_10_20=1.397,SUBJECT_ENCODED_TWICE=1.543 Subject: LF: =?windows-1252?Q?Re=3A_LF=3A_Re=3A_LF=3A_RE=3A_Alignment_of_=28Narrow_Band=29_DATA_?= =?windows-1252?Q?and_WSPR_frequency=92s_on_the_500_KHz_band=2E?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016368e1d1fd46f40049c5042f8 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d300.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60514d5a60363562 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0016368e1d1fd46f40049c5042f8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pete, LF, Don't forget that the modes discussed here are spot frequency modes & Graham's suggestions are to make these modes more continent, country & mod= e compatible. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 15 February 2011 10:10, M0FMT wrote: > Band plans are a bad idea all it does is great unofficial RSGB Policemen > that make life a pain like they have done on VHF here in the UK.........= Any > way the band is only on loan. > > 73 es GL petefmt > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Rik Strobbe > *To:* "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" > *Cc:* Joe Taylor > *Sent:* Tue, 15 February, 2011 7:23:06 > *Subject:* LF: RE: Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency=92= s on > the 500 KHz band. > > Hello Graham, > > I would suggest to have all digital modes as close as possible to the ba= nd > edges, leaving the band centre for CW. > For WSPR there are currently 2 segments: one for EU stations to transmit= on > (503.9kHz +/- 100Hz) and one NA stations to transmit on (501.1kHz +/- 10= 0Hz) > to avoid local QRM (or better said RX overload). > So 503.7kHz +/- 100Hz and/or 501.3kHz +/- 100Hz for other digimodes ? > It would be possible to have a single data segment for EU and NA it we= go > from frequency division to time division: if all EU stations would trans= mit > in the xx:00-xx:02, xx:04-xx:06, xx:08-xx:10 ... time slots and all NA > stations in the xx:02-xx:04, xx:06-xx-08 ... time slots they can use the > same frequency without local QRM. > But this would require a minor chang in the WSPR software (and maybe als= o > other software). > > 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T > > ------------------------------ > *Van:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [ > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Graham [g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.= uk > ] > *Verzonden:* dinsdag 15 februari 2011 2:20 > *Aan:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *CC:* Joe Taylor > *Onderwerp:* LF: Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency=92s= on > the 500 KHz band. > > *Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency=92s on the 50= 0 > KHz band.* > > > > The original wspr frequency 502.4 was defined as the working > frequency to utilise the =91clean=92 area just under the 504 harmo= nic, > whilst avoiding the various beacons running across the 501/504 ba= nd > at the time. However, time has moved on and there are now numerous =91d= ial > setting=92s=92 in use both sides of the Atlantic. > > > > Due to an apparent increase in the side band noise from the 504 > signal , possibly by enhanced propagation , the ROS MF (100 hz b/w) > working frequency is to be re defined as 500 USB dial set giving= a > centre carrier frequency of 501.500 > > > > Due to Ae bandwidth and perhaps alignment with other band=92s,= I > would suggest the original WSPR 502.4K is replaced with the lower > frequency of 495.9K , thus restoring the System=92s coverage and > facilitating changes of mode etc within a narrow bandwidth. > > > > I don=92t see this detracting from the monitoring of spot frequenc= y > beacons over 505Khz , but more appropriate to transmitting station= s > , which by the nature of the antenna arrays are not able comfortab= ly > to qsy from top to bottom of the band without re-tuning, not > always a simple option. > > > > Comments or suggestions please ?. > > > > Graham > > G0NBD > > > > > > --0016368e1d1fd46f40049c5042f8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Pete, LF,

Don't forget that the modes discussed her= e are spot frequency modes & Graham's suggestions are to make thes= e modes more continent, country & mode compatible.

73,

Gary - G4WGT.


On 15 February 2011 10:10, M0FMT <= m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk> wrot= e:
Band plans are a bad idea all it does is great unofficial RSGB Police= men that make life a pain like they have done on VHF here in the UK.......= .. Any way the band is only on loan.
=A0
73 es GL petefmt=20


From: Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fy= s.kuleuven.be>
To: "= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Cc: Joe Taylor <joe@Prin= ceton.EDU>
Sent: Tue,= 15 February, 2011 7:23:06
Subject:= LF: RE: Alignment of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency=92s= on the 500 KHz band.

Hello Graham,
=A0
I would suggest to have all digital= modes as close as possible to the band edges, leaving the band centre for= CW.
For WSPR there=A0are currently=A02= segments: one for EU stations to transmit on (503.9kHz +/- 100Hz) and one= NA stations to transmit on (501.1kHz +/- 100Hz) to avoid local QRM (or be= tter said RX overload).
So 503.7kHz +/- 100Hz and/or 501.3kH= z +/- 100Hz for other digimodes ?
It would be possible to have a singl= e data segment for EU and NA it we go from frequency division to time divi= sion: if all EU stations would transmit in the xx:00-xx:02, xx:04-xx:06,= xx:08-xx:10 ... time slots and all NA stations in the xx:02-xx:04, xx:06-= xx-08 ... time slots they can use the same frequency without local QRM.
But this would require a minor chang= in the WSPR software (and maybe also other software).
=A0
73, Rik=A0 ON7YD - OR7T
=A0
Van: owner-rsgb_lf= _group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Gr= aham [g8fzk@g= 8fzk.fsnet.co.uk]
Verzonden: dinsdag 15 februari 2011 2:20
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
CC: Joe Taylor
Onderwerp: LF: Alignment= of (Narrow Band) DATA and WSPR frequency=92s on the 500 KHz band.

Alignment of =A0(Narrow Band) DATA =A0and =A0WSPR=A0 frequency=92s on the=A0 500 KHz=A0 band.

<= /span>=A0

T= he=A0 original wspr frequency =A0=A0502.4= =A0 was=A0 defined=A0 as the=A0 working=A0 frequency=A0 to=A0 u= tilise the=A0 =91clean=92 area=A0 just under the= =A0 504=A0 harmonic, whilst avoiding the= =A0 various=A0 beacons=A0 running= =A0 across=A0 the=A0 501/504=A0 band at the=A0 time. However, time has moved on and there= are now numerous =91dial setting=92s=92 in use both sides of the <= span lang=3D"EN-GB">Atlantic.

<= /span>=A0

D= ue to=A0 an apparent =A0increase=A0 in the=A0 side band=A0 noise=A0 fr= om the=A0 504 signal , possibly by=A0 enhanced=A0 propagation , the=A0 ROS=A0 MF =A0(100= hz b/w) working=A0 frequency is=A0 to be re def= ined as=A0 500=A0 US= B dial=A0 set=A0 giv= ing a=A0 centre=A0 carrier=A0 frequ= ency of 501.500 =A0

<= /span>=A0

D= ue=A0 to=A0 Ae=A0 bandwidth and=A0 perhaps =A0alignment=A0 with= =A0 =A0other=A0 =A0band=92s,= =A0I =A0=A0would=A0 suggest the or= iginal WSPR =A0502.4K is=A0 replaced=A0 with the=A0 lower frequency =A0of=A0= 495.9K , thus=A0 restoring the=A0 System= =92s=A0 coverage and=A0 facilitating=A0 changes=A0 of mode etc within a=A0 narrow= bandwidth.

<= /span>=A0

I= don=92t =A0see=A0 this=A0 detracti= ng=A0 from the monitoring=A0 of spot=A0 frequency=A0 beacons=A0 over 505Khz , but= more=A0 appropriate=A0=A0 to=A0 tr= ansmitting=A0 stations , which=A0 by the= =A0 nature of the=A0 antenna arrays are=A0 not=A0 able=A0 comfortably=A0 to<= span>=A0 qsy=A0 from=A0 top=A0 to=A0 bottom of the=A0 band without=A0 re-tun= ing, not=A0 always a=A0 simple=A0 option.

<= /span>=A0

C= omments=A0 or=A0 suggestions please ?.

<= /span>=A0

G= raham

G= 0NBD

<= /span>=A0





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