Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.9]) by air-ma03.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMA033-b5124d601ec3d5; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:49:23 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-ma01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 79282380000BF; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 14:49:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Pqsn8-00019T-K2 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 19:48:30 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Pqsn7-00019K-O1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 19:48:29 +0000 Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de ([129.206.100.212]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Pqsn6-0007JZ-Gg for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 19:48:29 +0000 Received: from ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (cyrus-portal.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.176]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p1JJmR3R002214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 20:48:27 +0100 Received: from extmail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (extmail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.140]) by ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p1JJmQjX010519 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 20:48:26 +0100 Received: from [147.142.13.135] (vpn513-135.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de [147.142.13.135]) by extmail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id p1JJmMVp011641 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 20:48:25 +0100 Message-ID: <4D601E9E.20500@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 20:48:46 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100711 Thunderbird/3.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <007501cbd04d$2690bcb0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <00ad01cbd054$95a85b60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <4D5FF6D1.1070606@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <00d701cbd05f$4f23fc20$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> In-Reply-To: <00d701cbd05f$4f23fc20$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 Subject: Re: LF: Antennas es power Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000009090109000606070701" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TITLE_EMPTY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60094d601ec13f9d X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --------------000009090109000606070701 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by relay.uni-heidelberg.de id p1JJmR3R002214 We _all_ know that vertical antennas, as high as possible, are the best=20 choice if one has the place and if there are not to much trees and=20 buildings. No need for discussions. If there would be something better:=20 The commercials would prefer it. And of course QRO gives a better signal= =20 than QRP, trivial. Am 19.02.2011 19:13, schrieb mal hamilton: > I do not have a wideband RX so cannot help with your request. Wrong! You have a PC with a Microphone input that covers 0...24 kHz,=20 wideband! You could simply take your RX loop and feed it into the=20 soundcard, maybe with a AF transformer for decoupling, just as the most=20 hams do it. The record distances above 2000km distance were achieved by=20 such systems so they obviously work. Instead you prefer a 10s year old=20 VLF RX that is drifting several Hz and feed the signal into the=20 soundcard at 1 kHz using SpecLab. WHY? > On VLF my max BW is 3 Khz, ideal for my needs. But your RX has no noiseblanker and/or clipper and thus you loose=20 several dB in sensitivity! In summer you will loose >20 dB sensitivity=20 without noise limiting. All that can be arranged in SpecLab and most are using these advantages! It can't be to difficult to take the cable coming from the RX loop and=20 connect it to the cable of a headphones plug and put it into the=20 soundcard input, isn't it? 73, GL, Stefan Am 19.02.2011 19:03, schrieb mal hamilton: > You have certainly got me puzzled. !!!!!!!!!! > Earlier on this morning at 0253z you congratulated Toni and Jay on=20 > their TA qso. > I was congratulating you on your achievement with your TX Kite=20 > antenna and the distance covered and you OBJECT. > Again the best signals so far generated and distance covered have been= =20 > from Vertical antennas, ie KITE, BALLOON and large Static Ex Broadcast= =20 > tower. > I have not yet heard/seen any VLF/LF signals from EARTH TX induced or=20 > induction propagation. Are you telling me I am wrong? > Has you Oscillator drifted off frequency ? > G3KEV > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Stefan Sch=E4fer > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > *Sent:* Saturday, February 19, 2011 4:58 PM > *Subject:* Re: LF: Antennas es power > > Mal, > > Are you bored? What's the motive to start that thread? Making some > stress and anger on the reflector? > > Watch some TV, look what's going on on HF, take a walk until its > dark or take a bath... There's much one can do :-) > > 73, GL, Stefan/DK7FC > > > > Am 19.02.2011 17:46, schrieb mal hamilton: >> John >> A cave DIVER is someone who decends underground for exploration. >> I was not referring to Sea/Ocean divers >> I did say Cave Divers. >> G3KEV >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* John Rabson >> *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> >> *Sent:* Saturday, February 19, 2011 4:10 PM >> *Subject:* Re: LF: Antennas es power >> >> On 19 Feb 2011, at 16:53CET, mal hamilton wrote: >> >>> On VLF es LF especially, using anything but a proper >>> elevated antenna is wasted time except one is content with a >>> few kilometres coverage, and >> >>> earth probe inductive/conduction devices are only good for >>> Cave Divers. >> Wrong. They are used by cavers generally, not just divers, >> and divers usually only use radio when they come up for air. >> >> John F5VLF >> --------------000009090109000606070701 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We all know that vertical antennas, as high as possible, are the best choice if one has the place and if there are not to much trees and buildings. No need for discussions. If there would be something better: The commercials would prefer it. And of course QRO gives a better signal than QRP, trivial.

Am 19.02.2011 19:13, schrieb mal hamilton:
I do not have a wideband RX so cannot help with your request.
Wrong! You have a PC with a Microphone input that covers 0...24 kHz, wideband! You could simply take your RX loop and feed it into the soundcard, maybe with a AF transformer for decoupling, just as the most hams do it. The record distances above 2000km distance were achieved by such systems so they obviously work. Instead you prefer a 10s year old VLF RX that is drifting several Hz and feed the signal into the soundcard at 1 kHz using SpecLab. WHY?
On VLF my max BW is 3 Khz, ideal for my needs.
But your RX has no noiseblanker and/or clipper and thus you loose several dB in sensitivity! In summer you will loose >20 dB sensitivity without noise limiting.

All that can be arranged in SpecLab and most are using these advantages!

It can't be to difficult to take the cable coming from the RX loop and connect it to the cable of a headphones plug and put it into the soundcard input, isn't it?

73, GL, Stefan



Am 19.02.2011 19:03, schrieb mal hamilton:
You have certainly got me puzzled. !!!!!!!!!!
Earlier on this morning at 0253z you congratulated Toni and Jay on their TA qso.
 I was congratulating you on your achievement with your TX Kite antenna and the distance covered and you OBJECT.
Again the best signals so far generated and distance covered have been from Vertical antennas, ie KITE, BALLOON and large Static Ex Broadcast tower.
I have not yet heard/seen any VLF/LF signals from EARTH TX induced or induction  propagation. Are you telling me I am wrong?
Has you Oscillator drifted off frequency ?
G3KEV
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Antennas es power

Mal,

Are you bored? What's the motive to start that thread? Making some stress and anger on the reflector?

Watch some TV, look what's going on on HF, take a walk until its dark or take a bath... There's much one can do :-)

73, GL, Stefan/DK7FC



Am 19.02.2011 17:46, schrieb mal hamilton:
John
A cave DIVER is someone who decends underground for exploration. I was not referring to Sea/Ocean divers
I did say Cave Divers.
G3KEV
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Antennas es power

On 19 Feb 2011, at 16:53CET, mal hamilton wrote:

On VLF es LF especially,  using anything but a proper elevated antenna is wasted time except one is content with a few kilometres coverage, and

earth probe inductive/conduction devices are only good for Cave Divers.
Wrong.  They are used by cavers generally, not just divers, and divers usually only use radio when they come up for air.

John F5VLF

--------------000009090109000606070701--