Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj05.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.89]) by air-de07.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDE073-5ebc4d602cef304; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 15:49:51 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mj05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7005438000050; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 15:49:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PqtjB-0002CH-KQ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 20:48:29 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Pqtj9-0002C8-VK for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 20:48:27 +0000 Received: from out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.237]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Pqtj7-0008Kv-3R for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Feb 2011 20:48:27 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ai4BAE67X01cEYtw/2dsb2JhbACCSpUkjktzuVuFXgSBaI4A X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.62,192,1297036800"; d="scan'208,217";a="344108690" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.17.139.112]) by out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2011 20:48:18 +0000 Message-ID: <012701cbd076$55f99750$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <007501cbd04d$2690bcb0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <00ad01cbd054$95a85b60$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <4D5FF6D1.1070606@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <00d701cbd05f$4f23fc20$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <4D601E9E.20500@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2011 20:48:17 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Antennas es power Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0124_01CBD076.55957E50" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TITLE_EMPTY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400c89aa4d602ce010e4 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : temperror ------=_NextPart_000_0124_01CBD076.55957E50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OM Now you are trying to dictate to me what to do. That has not worked in= the past. Are you dangling from your Kite and when do you expect to= land !!!!!!!!!!!11 G3KEV =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 7:48 PM Subject: Re: LF: Antennas es power We all know that vertical antennas, as high as possible, are the bes= t choice if one has the place and if there are not to much trees and= buildings. No need for discussions. If there would be something bette= r: The commercials would prefer it. And of course QRO gives a better= signal than QRP, trivial. Am 19.02.2011 19:13, schrieb mal hamilton:=20 I do not have a wideband RX so cannot help with your request. Wrong! You have a PC with a Microphone input that covers 0...24 kHz,= wideband! You could simply take your RX loop and feed it into the sou= ndcard, maybe with a AF transformer for decoupling, just as the most= hams do it. The record distances above 2000km distance were achieved= by such systems so they obviously work. Instead you prefer a 10s year= old VLF RX that is drifting several Hz and feed the signal into the= soundcard at 1 kHz using SpecLab. WHY? On VLF my max BW is 3 Khz, ideal for my needs. But your RX has no noiseblanker and/or clipper and thus you loose se= veral dB in sensitivity! In summer you will loose >20 dB sensitivity= without noise limiting. All that can be arranged in SpecLab and most are using these advanta= ges!=20 It can't be to difficult to take the cable coming from the RX loop= and connect it to the cable of a headphones plug and put it into the= soundcard input, isn't it? 73, GL, Stefan Am 19.02.2011 19:03, schrieb mal hamilton:=20 You have certainly got me puzzled. !!!!!!!!!! Earlier on this morning at 0253z you congratulated Toni and Jay on= their TA qso. I was congratulating you on your achievement with your TX Kite an= tenna and the distance covered and you OBJECT. Again the best signals so far generated and distance covered have= been from Vertical antennas, ie KITE, BALLOON and large Static Ex Bro= adcast tower.=20 I have not yet heard/seen any VLF/LF signals from EARTH TX induced= or induction propagation. Are you telling me I am wrong? Has you Oscillator drifted off frequency ? G3KEV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 4:58 PM Subject: Re: LF: Antennas es power Mal,=20 Are you bored? What's the motive to start that thread? Making so= me stress and anger on the reflector? Watch some TV, look what's going on on HF, take a walk until its= dark or take a bath... There's much one can do :-) 73, GL, Stefan/DK7FC Am 19.02.2011 17:46, schrieb mal hamilton:=20 John A cave DIVER is someone who decends underground for exploratio= n. I was not referring to Sea/Ocean divers I did say Cave Divers. G3KEV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: John Rabson=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2011 4:10 PM Subject: Re: LF: Antennas es power On 19 Feb 2011, at 16:53CET, mal hamilton wrote: On VLF es LF especially, using anything but a proper elev= ated antenna is wasted time except one is content with a few kilometre= s coverage, and=20 earth probe inductive/conduction devices are only good for= Cave Divers. Wrong. They are used by cavers generally, not just divers,= and divers usually only use radio when they come up for air. John F5VLF ------=_NextPart_000_0124_01CBD076.55957E50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
OM
Now you are trying to dictate to me what= to do. That=20 has not worked in the past. Are you dangling from your Kite and= when do you=20 expect to land !!!!!!!!!!!11
G3KEV
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 19,= 2011 7:48=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Antennas es= power

We all know that vertical antennas, as high as= possible,=20 are the best choice if one has the place and if there are not to muc= h trees=20 and buildings. No need for discussions. If there would be something= better:=20 The commercials would prefer it. And of course QRO gives a better si= gnal than=20 QRP, trivial.

Am 19.02.2011 19:13, schrieb mal hamilton:=20
I do not have a wideband RX so ca= nnot help with=20 your request.
Wrong! You have a PC with= a Microphone=20 input that covers 0...24 kHz, wideband! You could simply take your= RX loop and=20 feed it into the soundcard, maybe with a AF transformer for decoupli= ng, just=20 as the most hams do it. The record distances above 2000km distance= were=20 achieved by such systems so they obviously work. Instead you prefer= a 10s year=20 old VLF RX that is drifting several Hz and feed the signal into the= soundcard=20 at 1 kHz using SpecLab. WHY?
On VLF my max BW is 3 Khz, ideal= for my=20 needs.
But your RX has no noiseblanker an= d/or clipper=20 and thus you loose several dB in sensitivity! In summer you will loo= se >20=20 dB sensitivity without noise limiting.

All that can be arrang= ed in=20 SpecLab and most are using these advantages!

It can't be to= difficult=20 to take the cable coming from the RX loop and connect it to the cabl= e of a=20 headphones plug and put it into the soundcard input, isn't it?
73, GL,=20 Stefan



Am 19.02.2011 19:03, schrieb mal hamilton:=20
You have certainly got me puzzled.=20 !!!!!!!!!!
Earlier on this morning at 0253z you congr= atulated=20 Toni and Jay on their TA qso.
 I was congratulating you on your ach= ievement=20 with your TX Kite antenna and the distance covered and you=20 OBJECT.
Again the best signals so far generated an= d distance=20 covered have been from Vertical antennas, ie KITE, BALLOON and lar= ge Static=20 Ex Broadcast tower.
I have not yet heard/seen any VLF/LF signa= ls from=20 EARTH TX induced or induction  propagation. Are you tell= ing me I=20 am wrong?
Has you Oscillator drifted off frequency= =20 ?
G3KEV
 
 
-----=20 Original Message -----
Sent:=20 Saturday, February 19, 2011 4:58 PM
Subject:=20 Re: LF: Antennas es power

Mal,

Are you bored? What's the motive to= start that=20 thread? Making some stress and anger on the reflector?

Wa= tch some=20 TV, look what's going on on HF, take a walk until its dark or ta= ke a=20 bath... There's much one can do :-)

73, GL,=20 Stefan/DK7FC



Am 19.02.2011 17:46, schrieb mal ham= ilton:=20
John
A cave DIVER is someone who decends un= derground=20 for exploration. I was not referring to Sea/Ocean divers
I did say Cave Divers.
G3KEV
 
-----=20 Original Message -----
From:=20 John Rabson
Sent:=20 Saturday, February 19, 2011 4:10 PM
Subject:=20 Re: LF: Antennas es power

On 19 Feb 2011, at 16:53CET, mal hamilton wrote:
<= BR class=3DApple-interchange-newline>
On VLF=20 es LF especially,  using anything but a proper elevat= ed antenna=20 is wasted time except one is content with a few kilometres= coverage,=20 and

earth=20 probe inductive/conduction devices are only good for= Cave=20 Divers.
Wrong.  = ;They are=20 used by cavers generally, not just divers, and divers usuall= y only use=20 radio when they come up for air.

John=20 F5VLF

 ------=_NextPart_000_0124_01CBD076.55957E50--