Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.24]) by air-dc02.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDC021-85fe4d69484f24a; Sat, 26 Feb 2011 13:37:03 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mb04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6A5383800008A; Sat, 26 Feb 2011 13:37:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PtP08-0000O5-AN for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2011 18:36:20 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PtP07-0000Nv-LA for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2011 18:36:19 +0000 Received: from out1.ip09ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.245]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PtP05-00061A-RD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2011 18:36:19 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsAAFfXaE1cHY8S/2dsb2JhbACUCINtDo5DdLtJhWEEgWuOCg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.62,232,1297036800"; d="scan'208,217";a="469762022" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.29.143.18]) by out1.ip09ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 26 Feb 2011 18:36:01 +0000 Message-ID: <007301cbd5e4$021bd7b0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <4D68D656.11240.29D4BD@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> <91080E99390042E499FB23B4F98CD84A@White> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 18:35:57 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: HE3OM in JA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0070_01CBD5E4.01D6B860" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60184d69484d5a5d X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none ------=_NextPart_000_0070_01CBD5E4.01D6B860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Markus If you can only produce a dot or a less and no ID then it is time to= QRO so that your transmission can be seen properly.=20 Do not depend on an ID based on Frequency accuracy, it leads to guesw= ork.=20 And long slow transmissions with QSB is a waste of time and meaningle= ss, ie broken up dashes and impossible to ID This has all been discussed before and concluded that slow prolonged= dases/transmissions are useless. With some effort and suitable power short sharp transmissions are pref= erable. It seems to me in recent times we are covering the same old ground and= making little or no headway. So far I have heard/seen ONE German and one Austrian stn on VLF, wher= e are all the others that were so keen to TX.=20 G3KEV =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 12:06 PM Subject: Re: LF: HE3OM in JA Congratulations to Kuni and Toni, and thanks Mike for sorting out th= e relevant screenshots. Yes faster modes may give a powerful station a better chance to get= a complete message across. Already on Monday evening, dots from HE3OM= have definitely been identified on the JA7NI grabber while it was run= ning in 84 mHz "QRSS-10" resolution. But for the likes of ourselves who are able to produce a marginal SN= R at best, I think the only option is trying to produce a few traces= at 90 seconds or slower modes. Best regards, and good luck to all, Markus (DF6NM) From: Mike Dennison=20 Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 11:30 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: HE3OM in JA Last night HE3OM put a good signal into JA7NI's grabber at JA dawn..= =20 UA4WPF can also be seen, but much weaker than previously. See=20 attached. Also attached is the same time on RN3AGC's grabber which shows that= =20 DF6NM and myself were also calling, but we could not compete with=20 HE3OM's ERP which I estimate as 15-20dB up on us. The JA picture also supports my theory that QRS120 is not a practica= l=20 speed for real DX. There are long periods where the signal is well= =20 above the noise, but QSB prevents the whole callsign being received.= =20 At that strength, QRS30 would probably have still been viable and=20 allowed a couple of full calls to be read. Congratulations to HE3OM on what may be an amateur world record on= =20 136, though with an estimated ERP much bigger than most amateurs hav= e=20 available. Mike, G3XDV =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0070_01CBD5E4.01D6B860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Markus
If you can only produce a dot or a less and no= ID=20  then it is time to QRO so that your transmission can be seen pro= perly.=20
Do not  depend on an ID based on Fre= quency=20 accuracy, it leads to gueswork.
And long slow transmissions with QSB = ; is a=20 waste of time and meaningless, ie broken up dashes and impossible to= =20 ID
This has all been discussed before and conclud= ed that slow=20 prolonged dases/transmissions are useless.
With some effort and suitable power short shar= p=20 transmissions are preferable.
It seems to me in recent times we are covering= the same=20 old ground and making little or no headway.
So far I have heard/seen ONE German and one Au= strian stn=20 on VLF,  where are all the others that were so keen to TX.
 
G3KEV
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 26,= 2011 12:06=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: HE3OM in JA<= /DIV>

Congratulations to Kuni and Toni,= and thanks Mike=20 for sorting out the relevant screenshots.
 
Yes faster modes may give a po= werful station=20 a better chance to get a complete message across. Already on Mo= nday=20 evening, dots from HE3OM have definitely been identified on the JA7N= I grabber=20 while it was running in 84 mHz "QRSS-10" resolution.
 
But for the likes of ourselves= who are able=20 to produce a marginal SNR at best, I think the only option= =20 is trying to produce a few traces at 90 seconds = or slower=20 modes.
 
Best regards, and good luck to all,=
 
Markus (DF6NM)
 

Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2011 11:30 AM
Subject: LF: HE3OM in JA
=
Last night HE3OM put a=20 good signal into JA7NI's grabber at JA dawn..
UA4WPF can also be= seen, but=20 much weaker than previously. See
attached.

Also attached= is the=20 same time on RN3AGC's grabber which shows that
DF6NM and myself= were also=20 calling, but we could not compete with
HE3OM's ERP which I estim= ate as=20 15-20dB up on us.

The JA picture also supports my theory that= QRS120 is=20 not a practical
speed for real DX. There are long periods where= the signal=20 is well
above the noise, but QSB prevents the whole callsign bei= ng=20 received.
At that strength, QRS30 would probably have still been= viable=20 and
allowed a couple of full calls to be read.

Congratula= tions to=20 HE3OM on what may be an amateur world record on
136, though with= an=20 estimated ERP much bigger than most amateurs have
available.
=
Mike,=20 G3XDV
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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