Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi02.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.155]) by air-ma02.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMA021-b4f34d5be77c47; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 10:04:28 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mi02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 9B28A3800024F; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 10:04:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PpiuW-0000Fs-QZ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:03:20 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PpiuW-0000Fd-3I for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:03:20 +0000 Received: from out1.ip06ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.242]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PpiuU-0001Nz-52 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:03:20 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AisBAGp2W01Ok8bM/2dsb2JhbACCSpBeA4NvjkhzvDmFXgSBZY13gnM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,480,1291593600"; d="scan'208,217";a="490803555" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.147.198.204]) by out1.ip06ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2011 15:03:10 +0000 Message-ID: <005601cbcdea$9d39e6d0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <006301cbcd3a$cd0364a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf><009101cbcd4f$81d98da0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf><70ED8F4523F743C399A3F88C9F870D62@JimPC> Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:03:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: TA TONITE Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0053_01CBCDEA.9CCEA1E0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039400cdeca4d5be77a5fa3 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01CBCDEA.9CCEA1E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Toni It is all Guesswork trying to measure ERP some hundreds of miles away.= especially by Radio Amateurs. I have seen figures in the past and after a detailed mathematical anal= ysis the concluded statement was that this could be 6 dB either way,= in other words the erp measured could be 1W erp or maybe 4w erp or ev= en worse a lot less. Let them believe what they like hi g3kev =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: HB9ASB=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 1:08 PM Subject: Re: LF: TA TONITE Thanks Rik I've read somewhere that DCF39 has 40kW EIRP. So we would have aroun= d 4W EIRP. Last week a station measured our field strength, 100km away= and came to 0.4WEIRP. This is probably a little bit to low. Anyway,= it shows me again, that most amateurs overestimate their ERP. Even Ma= l has probably not the Watt he claims ;-) 73 de Toni 2011/2/16 Rik Strobbe Hello Toni, group, I measured the HE3OM signal 41dB down on DCF39. Distances to HE3OM (504km) and DCF39 (515km) are almost identical. This might give the US stations a clue what signal strength they= can expect from HE3OM and what QRSS speed Tony could use to be copied= . 73, Rik ON7YD ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org] namens HB9ASB [hb9asb@gmail.com] Verzonden: woensdag 16 februari 2011 8:44 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: Re: LF: TA TONITE Dear Jim, Mal and LF Group Unfortunately the tower is not nearby my house and I can't leave= the station running unattended. And the nights I can spend in Sottens= are limited by my health and my wife, hi. So there is no trial before= , I have just next Friday night. If I take a look at the reports we got in the past two weeks from= stations 2000-3000km away (always good audible), it should be possibl= e to span 6000km using QRSS10. On the receiving side, we may be able to see stations let's say wi= th QRSS60. This would mean, that we could make only one or two QSO's.= May be it's better to try Crossband: we transmit in QRSS10 and listen= on 80m. This would give more stations the opportunity to contact us.= However, if there is a station from the East Coast we copy in QRSS10= it would get the priority. What do you think about this approach? 73 de Toni 2011/2/15 James Moritz Dear Toni, LF Group, HE3OM has the advantage of a much stronger TX signal than most= Eu stations, so I guess you have a good chance of being copied in NA= on Friday night, unless the propagation is very poor. But as you will= have seen from the activity last weekend, forward planning is always= a good thing, especially where a single QSO takes hours. If possible,= I would suggest transmitting some beacon signals from HE3OM between= now and Friday, so that North American stations can get a good idea= what QRSS speed can be copied from your station. Also, try to receive= any W/VE beacons that might be running, so that you also know what th= e requirement will be in the other direction. Finally, I have usually= found reception of US stations is best just before dawn here, so make= sure you are not going to be busy on Saturday! Good luck,=20 Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0053_01CBCDEA.9CCEA1E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Toni
It is all Guesswork trying to measure ERP some= hundreds of=20 miles away. especially by Radio Amateurs.
I have seen figures in the past and after a de= tailed=20 mathematical analysis the concluded statement was that this could be&n= bsp;6 dB=20 either way, in other words the erp measured could be 1W erp or maybe= 4w erp or=20 even worse a lot less.
Let them believe what they like hi
g3kev
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 HB9ASB<= /A>
Sent: Wednesday, February 16,= 2011 1:08=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: TA TONITE

Thanks Rik
I've read somewhere that DCF39 has 40kW= EIRP. So=20 we would have around 4W EIRP. Last week a station measured our field= strength,=20 100km away and came to 0.4WEIRP. This is probably a little bit to lo= w. Anyway,=20 it shows me again, that most amateurs overestimate their ERP. Even= Mal has=20 probably not the Watt he claims ;-)
73 de Toni

2011/2/16 Rik Strobbe <<= A href=3D"mailto:Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be">Rik.Strobbe@fys.kule= uven.be>
Hello Toni, group,
 
I measured=20 the HE3OM signal 41dB down on DCF39.
Distances to HE3OM (504km)=20 and DCF39 (515km) are almost identical.
This might give the US stations= a clue what=20 signal strength they can expect from HE3OM and what QRSS speed Ton= y could=20 use to be copied.
 
73, Rik  ON7YD
 
 
Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf= _group@blacksheep.org] namens HB9ASB [hb9asb@gmail.com]
Verzon= den: woensdag 16=20 februari 2011 8:44
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.o= rg
Onderwerp: Re: LF:=20 TA TONITE

Dear Jim, Mal and LF Group

Unfortunately the tower is= not nearby=20 my house and I can't leave the station running unattended. And the= nights I=20 can spend in Sottens are limited by my health and my wife, hi. So= there is=20 no trial before, I have just next Friday night.
If I take a loo= k at the=20 reports we got in the past two weeks from stations 2000-3000km awa= y (always=20 good audible), it should be possible to span 6000km using QRSS10.<= BR>On the=20 receiving side, we may be able to see stations let's say with QRSS= 60. This=20 would mean, that we could make only one or two QSO's. May be it's= better to=20 try Crossband: we transmit in QRSS10 and listen on 80m. This would= give more=20 stations the opportunity to contact us. However, if there is a sta= tion from=20 the East Coast we copy in QRSS10 it would get the priority.
Wha= t do you=20 think about this approach?

73 de Toni

2011/2/15 James Moritz &l= t;james.moritz@btopenworld.com>
D= ear=20 Toni, LF Group,

HE3OM has the advantage of a much stronge= r TX=20 signal than most Eu stations, so I guess you have a good chance= of being=20 copied in NA on Friday night, unless the propagation is very poo= r. But as=20 you will have seen from the activity last weekend, forward plann= ing is=20 always a good thing, especially where a single QSO takes hours.= If=20 possible, I would suggest transmitting some beacon signals from= HE3OM=20 between now and Friday, so that North American stations can get= a good=20 idea what QRSS speed can be copied from your station. Also, try= to receive=20 any W/VE beacons that might be running, so that you also know wh= at the=20 requirement will be in the other direction. Finally, I have usua= lly found=20 reception of US stations is best just before dawn here, so make= sure you=20 are not going to be busy on Saturday!

Good luck,=20

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU=20



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