Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.24]) by air-me04.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINME044-8baf4d3c2b82bd; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 08:22:10 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dh04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B915D38000092; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 08:22:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Pgzsa-0007mk-5z for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 13:21:16 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PgzsZ-0007mb-Jz for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 13:21:15 +0000 Received: from imr-da01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.105.143]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PgzsX-0003GY-Ig for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 13:21:15 +0000 Received: from mtaout-ma06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-ma06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.6]) by imr-da01.mx.aol.com (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p0NDL6jR020928 for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 08:21:06 -0500 Received: from White (nrbg-4d072a3c.pool.mediaWays.net [77.7.42.60]) by mtaout-ma06.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id 0D207E0000AD for ; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 08:21:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: From: "Markus Vester" To: References: <4CA5E86D.1070208@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> ,<6F6098420211436FABB78BE04E5F8FAD@JimPC> ,<000901cb6215$2db60550$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> ,<4CA7096F.7070307@freenet.de> ,<25B77CFFDA13430086BE150894C4D3C3@Black> ,<5C71BB4133A642F7A2D06B26B567880D@Black> , ,<65DFBC8F38CD4AF48A62C61B6BC4DCC4@Black> , , ,<4CF78D62.9070403@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> ,<4CF923F3.5070407@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> ,<931923.22241.qm@web111910.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> ,<265816.87720.qm@web111910.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> ,<1295773648.1527.1.camel@gerhard-desktop> <1295784098.1527.29.camel@gerhard-desktop> <1295787191.1527.38.camel@gerhard-desktop> Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 14:21:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Transmissions on 8970Hz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01CBBB08.C3DE7660" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41184d3c2b8072f4 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CBBB08.C3DE7660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gerhard, compared to the capacitive fields of the antenna at VLF, the building= will anyway be nearly a short circuit to ground. Connecting the light= ning protector will divert some of the current which would otherwise= be going through the house, but the relative difference in the extern= al E-field distribution will only be small.=20 I have a similar situation with the LF TX antenna, which is about 10= m above the roof of our two-floor house. There is a vapour barrier ma= de of thin aluminium sheets under the roof, and two of the strips can= be accessed electrically. By connecting those to ground, about 15 per= cent of the total antenna current could be collected, and this helped= to significantly reduce the e-fields indoors, and also slightly the= loss resistance. On your grabber, it looks like you have switched frequency from 8970.0= 0 to 8969.97 sometime around 12:15 - was this a real step, or an artif= act due to receiver samplerate correction? Best 73, Markus From: Gerhard Hickl=20 Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 1:53 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: LF: Transmissions on 8970Hz Hello again! At about 12:30UT I disconnected the lightning protector again. At 500mA Antenna current the wires from the roof are at about 200V and the current to earth was measured at 60mA. I did this connecting/disconnecting-test now several times but the signal received by Lubos in 40km distance didn't show any noticeable difference. That's a riddle to me. The only difference I notice locally, is that the field-strength in my shack (directly under the roof) is much higher when the protector is disconnected because the shielding effect of all the metal parts on th= e roof isn't given any more. This also can be seen on my grabber. 73 Gerhard =20 Am Sonntag, den 23.01.2011, 13:01 +0100 schrieb Gerhard Hickl: > Hello Lubos and group! >=20 > Yes, I started at about 11UT. >=20 > Yesterday at 12:45UT I reconnected the lightning protector of the ho= use > to ground but I couldn't see any difference on the plot you sent. >=20 > So I guess if connected or not doesn't play a big role. On the other > hand, there's a high voltage on the wire coming down the roof which= must > lead to some current flowing to ground. >=20 > Maybe I will disconnect again in the afternoon and measure Voltage= and > Current. >=20 > Today we have strong wind here and I will see how long I can keep th= e TX > running. >=20 > 73, tnx > OE3GHB > Gerhard >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Am Sonntag, den 23.01.2011, 12:40 +0100 schrieb Lubos OK2BVG: > > Hello Gerhard, VLF! > > I noticed, that you had started transmissin at 11:00UT ( S/N =3D= 15dB). > > I saw Ossi=C2=B4s transmission from 09:30 to 11:00UT, but very we= akly, as > > usual > >=20 > >=20 > > Lubos, oK2BVG > >=20 > >=20 > > *************************** > >=20 > > > From: gerhard.hickl@aon.at > > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > > Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 10:07:28 +0100 > > > Subject: Re: LF: Transmissions on 8970Hz > > >=20 > > > Hello Daniele, group! > > >=20 > > > I will fire up later slightly below 8970. > > >=20 > > > Ossi is already transmitting. > > >=20 > > > 73 > > > OE3GHB > > > Gerhard > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > Am Sonntag, den 23.01.2011, 00:54 -0800 schrieb Daniele Tincani: > > > > Hello VLF, > > > > any transmission tests planned today? > > > > Regards > > > > D. > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01CBBB08.C3DE7660 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Gerhard,
 
compared to the capacitive field= s of the=20 antenna at VLF, the building will anyway be nearly a short circui= t to=20 ground. Connecting the lightning protector will divert some of the cur= rent=20 which would otherwise be going through the house, but the re= lative=20 difference in the external E-field distribution will only be=20 small. 
 
I have a similar situation with the LF TX antenna, which is = about 10 m=20 above the roof of our two-floor house. There is a vapour barrier= made=20 of thin aluminium sheets under the roof, and two of the stri= ps can=20 be accessed electrically. By connecting those to ground, about&nb= sp;15=20 percent of the total antenna current could be collected, and this= helped to=20 significantly reduce the e-fields indoors, and also slightly the loss= =20 resistance.
 
On your grabber, it looks like you ha= ve switched=20 frequency from 8970.00 to 8969.97 sometime around 12:15 - wa= s this a=20 real step, or an artifact due to receiver samplerate correction?
 
Best 73,
Markus
 

Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 1:53 PM
Subject: RE: LF: Transmissions on 8970Hz

Hello again!

At about 12:30UT I disconnected the= lightning=20 protector again.

At 500mA Antenna current the wires from the ro= of are at=20 about 200V and
the current to earth was measured at 60mA.

I= did this=20 connecting/disconnecting-test now several times but the
signal rece= ived by=20 Lubos in 40km distance didn't show any noticeable
difference. That'= s a riddle=20 to me.

The only difference I notice locally, is that the field-= strength=20 in my
shack (directly under the roof) is much higher when the prote= ctor=20 is
disconnected because the shielding effect of all the metal parts= on=20 the
roof isn't given any more. This also can be seen on my=20 grabber.

73
Gerhard




 



Am=20 Sonntag, den 23.01.2011, 13:01 +0100 schrieb Gerhard Hickl:
> He= llo Lubos=20 and group!
>
> Yes, I started at about 11UT.
>
= >=20 Yesterday at 12:45UT I reconnected the lightning protector of the hous= e
>=20 to ground but I couldn't see any difference on the plot you sent.
&= gt;=20
> So I guess if connected or not doesn't play a big role. On th= e=20 other
> hand, there's a high voltage on the wire coming down the= roof=20 which must
> lead to some current flowing to ground.
> >=20 Maybe I will disconnect again in the afternoon and measure Voltage and=
>=20 Current.
>
> Today we have strong wind here and I will se= e how long=20 I can keep the TX
> running.
>
> 73, tnx
>=20 OE3GHB
> Gerhard
>
>
>
>
> Am= Sonntag,=20 den 23.01.2011, 12:40 +0100 schrieb Lubos OK2BVG:
> > Hello= Gerhard,=20 VLF!
> > I noticed, that you had started transmissin at 11:00= UT ( S/N =3D=20 15dB).
> >  I saw Ossi=C2=B4s transmission from 09:30 to= 11:00UT, but=20 very weakly, as
> > usual
> >
> >
>= >=20 Lubos, oK2BVG
> >
> >
> >=20 ***************************
> >
> > > From: gerhard.hickl@aon.at
&g= t; > >=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@bl= acksheep.org
>=20 > > Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 10:07:28 +0100
> > > Subj= ect: Re:=20 LF: Transmissions on 8970Hz
> > >
> > > Hello= Daniele,=20 group!
> > >
> > > I will fire up later sligh= tly below=20 8970.
> > >
> > > Ossi is already transmittin= g.
>=20 > >
> > > 73
> > > OE3GHB
> >= >=20 Gerhard
> > >
> > >
> > >
&g= t; >=20 > Am Sonntag, den 23.01.2011, 00:54 -0800 schrieb Daniele Tincani:<= BR>>=20 > > > Hello VLF,
> > > > any transmission test= s planned=20 today?
> > > > Regards
> > > > D.
>= ; >=20 > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >= ;
>=20 > >
> >
>
>
>


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