Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.139]) by air-dd09.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDD092-86374d2f929b36; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 19:02:35 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dc11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 7133138000093; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 19:02:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PdX6U-0002HG-2x for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2011 00:01:18 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PdX6T-0002H4-Ga for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2011 00:01:17 +0000 Received: from mhost02c.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.76.154]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PdX6R-0002mB-SG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Jan 2011 00:01:17 +0000 Received: from APOLLO2.ds.leeds.ac.uk (apollo2.leeds.ac.uk [129.11.5.5]) by mhost02c.leeds.ac.uk (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id p0E019VB020486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2011 00:01:09 GMT Received: from HERMES8.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([fe80::39ce:23e:d0b5:7e24]) by APOLLO2.ds.leeds.ac.uk ([129.11.5.5]) with mapi; Fri, 14 Jan 2011 00:01:09 +0000 From: Chris Trayner To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 00:01:07 +0000 Thread-Topic: LF: Re: Re: FET RDS Thread-Index: AcuzfiV03v018AxkRUeemk4q75N0Cw== Message-ID: References: <003801cbb33e$8b59e620$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <004001cbb349$8b4ec190$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <4D2F705F.7020804@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> In-Reply-To: <4D2F705F.7020804@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US, en-GB MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: FET RDS Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d408b4d2f92994b2f X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Dear All, Stefan raises an interesting issue. On 2011 Jan 13, at 21:36, Stefan Sch=E4fer wrote: > My LF 1 kW class E PA i using a single IRFP360 at > 96 % efficiency I'm sure you are getting high efficiencies. But measuring it at these numb= ers close to 100% actually makes quite interesting demands on the accuracy= of the instrumentation. You presumably measure DC input power from the PSU as Vin * Iin, and RF ou= tput power as Vout * Iout. The efficiency is then (Vout * Iout) / (Vin * Iin). The percentage error= of the result (the efficiency) is the sum of the percentage errors of the= four measurements. You might instead measure the output power into a dummy load as Vout^2/R,= but you still have a percentage error of twice twice the error of the vol= tage measurement. If you measure the output on a scope, personally I wouldn't trust a scope= measurement to better than a couple of percent. The Vout and Iout measure= ments (or two Vout measurements) will amount to a few percent error each,= so your efficiency of 96% could really be 96% +/-4% or even 96% +/-6%. (If you measure Vin and Iin on a multimeter, they could easily have errors= of 0.1% or better, and not contribute appreciably to the overall error.) John G3PAI brought up this interesting problem when he first built a class= E amplifier and measured efficiencies of over 100%. It was immediately ob= vious to him that the measurement accuracy was a limitation. 73, Chris G4OKW ----------------------- Dr Chris Trayner School of Electronic & Electrical Engineering, The University of Leeds, Leeds LS2 9JT, United Kingdom Tel: +44 113 34 32053 Fax: +44 113 34 32032