Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mp11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mp11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.193.79]) by air-db08.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDB081-85f44d2cac04d6; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 14:14:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mp11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0939138000112; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 14:14:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Pcjek-0002mF-7L for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:13:22 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Pcjej-0002m6-BG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:13:21 +0000 Received: from mail-iy0-f171.google.com ([209.85.210.171]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Pcjeh-0001ly-5x for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:13:21 +0000 Received: by iyj21 with SMTP id 21so19657291iyj.16 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 11:13:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=THu8p6egeJjwSkzk8RzBqgL291WEidIVE3akw5WY6tQ=; b=UqNHJcQIl95xYBcxN7a+EiYUXbP7ZHPJociibdPwFzbx8ZdMhJSaNs7nP7lBAZ03gp utZR6Nn+HPo8cOB0qqy/0poPXuiz1o2l7yN/X4icErTl2Xa3D5jeZ7GRZLGzrh7Q0hyn 7mYsp6jyDJ4rhPTXyxnW7C6YehVlnc95MO+Pc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=jgbkKl23wCxBAVmflrHIz5M0qkZelk4evUR1CCUv1rZwB0iRgsody98N0eX0vAOKsY 4j2/Ft9W4Np9RUAo18aaKHkVCqwRz0b+bgI3p1LTGhqx50cKloZkOnyOXBx4Z9CyHRA4 tF1vH4m6jNkp47lsjoA9rvM5Cz8o/WPeoxyR0= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.165.5 with SMTP id i5mr6137245icy.501.1294773192610; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 11:13:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.241.133 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jan 2011 11:13:12 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 19:13:12 +0000 Message-ID: From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Increased ERP on 137.5kHz - WSPR reports please Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba6e865235d29b049996e08d X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d025.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1dc14f4d2cac01794d X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --90e6ba6e865235d29b049996e08d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This agrees well with my calculation Rik. As I said, the issue is where th= e power is going: with such a short vertical section (5m long and assumed He= ff of 3m) without any real top loading most of the energy is being dissipated in the coil on the bedroom table. Currently TXing into the earth electrodes and G6ALB is getting me at -18dB S/N at 3km. I've a lot of work to do... 73s Roger g3XBM On 11 January 2011 19:03, Rik Strobbe wrote: > Hello Roger, > > 3m Heff @ 2200m --> Rrad =3D 1580*(3/2200)^2 =3D +/- 0.003 Ohm > radiated power =3D 0.18^2*0.003 =3D +/- 100uW > Gain of a short vertical =3D 1.83 --> ERP =3D +/- 180uW > But "greenery loss" can be up to 6dB (or even more), so instead of 180uW= it > could less than 50uW as well. > > I have wspr running, being very very optimistic ;-) > > 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T > > ------------------------------ > *Van:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [ > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Roger Lapthorn [ > rogerlapthorn@gmail.com] > > > > *Verzonden:* dinsdag 11 januari 2011 19:43 > *Aan:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Onderwerp:* Re: LF: Re: Increased ERP on 137.5kHz - WSPR reports please > > 0.18A and an assumed Heffective of 3m Andy. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > On 11 January 2011 18:39, Andy Talbot wrote: > >> What antenna current are you getting? >> - OR - >> What is the total resonant input resistance of the vertical + ground >> system (before any matching network) .and the RF power being delivered= into >> this, >> >> Either of these will allow a reasonable estimate of ERP >> >> Andy >> www.g4jnt.com >> >> >> >> >> On 11 January 2011 18:26, Roger Lapthorn wrot= e: >> >>> So much for the theory then.... >>> >>> The signal level at G6ALB in the next village (3km although WSPR shows= it >>> as 0km) is some 10dB *down* on my loop antenna. Not sure if I got my >>> sums wrong or there is some unexplained loss. The RX system at G6ALB= is >>> unchanged. >>> >>> 73s >>> Roger G3XBM >>> >>> On 11 January 2011 17:32, Roger Lapthorn wrot= e: >>> >>>> Dear All, >>>> >>>> Today I rigged up and matched a simple, small, Marconi vertical on >>>> 136kHz instead of the vertical loop. Based on measurements of antenna >>>> current and some reasonable assumptions of effective height, I now be= lieve I >>>> have around 200uW ERP on the band - heck this is *high* power for me! >>>> >>>> From now until late this evening I will run the WSPR beacon (136kHz= USB >>>> dial) in the hope that a few more people will be able to copy the QRP= p >>>> signal. Please have a go and let me have any reports. >>>> >>>> 73s and good luck >>>> >>>> Roger G3XBM >>>> >>>> -- >>>> g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >>>> www.g3xbm.co.uk >>>> www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm >>>> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >>> www.g3xbm.co.uk >>> www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm >>> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 >>> >>> = >>> >> >> > > > -- > g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > www.g3xbm.co.uk > www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > --=20 g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ www.g3xbm.co.uk www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 <#> <#> <#> <#> --90e6ba6e865235d29b049996e08d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This agrees well with my calculation Rik. As I said, the issue is where th= e power is going: with such a short vertical section (5m long and assumed= Heff of 3m) without any real top loading most of the energy is being diss= ipated in the coil on the bedroom table.

Currently TXing into the earth electrodes and G6ALB is getting me at= -18dB S/N at 3km. I've a lot of work to do...

73s
Roger g3X= BM

On 11 Janua= ry 2011 19:03, Rik Strobbe <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be> wrote:
Hello Roger,
=A0
3m Heff @ 2200m --> Rrad =3D 1580= *(3/2200)^2 =3D +/- 0.003 Ohm
radiated power =3D 0.18^2*0.003 =3D= +/- 100uW
Gain of a short vertical =3D 1.83 --= > ERP =3D +/- 180uW
But "greenery loss" can be= up to 6dB (or even more),=A0so instead of 180uW it could=A0less than=A050= uW as well.
=A0
I have wspr running, being very very= optimistic ;-)
=A0
73, Rik=A0 ON7YD - OR7T
=A0
Van: owner-rsgb_lf= _group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Ro= ger Lapthorn [rogerlapthorn@gmail.com]
=A0 =A0
=A0
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
=A0
=A0

Verzonden: dinsdag 11 januari 2011 19:43
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: Re: LF: Re: Increased ERP on 137.5kHz - WSPR reports ple= ase

0.18A and an assumed Heffective of 3m Andy.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 11 January 2011 18= :39, Andy Talbot <andy.g4jnt@gmail.com> wrote:
What antenna current are you getting?
=A0- OR -
What is the total resonant input resistance of the vertical + ground= system (before any matching network) .and the RF power being delivered in= to this,
=A0
Either of =A0these will allow a reasonable estimate of ERP
=A0
Andy
=A0


=A0
On 11 January 2011 18:26, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapt= horn@gmail.com> wrote:
So much for the theory then....

The signal level at G6ALB in the next village (3km although WSPR shows it= as 0km) is some 10dB down on my loop antenna. Not sure if I got my sums wrong or there= is some unexplained loss. The RX system at G6ALB is unchanged.

73s
Roger G3XBM

On 11 January 2011 17= :32, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear All,

Today I rigged up and matched a simple, small, Marconi vertical on 136kHz= instead of the vertical loop. Based on measurements of antenna current an= d some reasonable assumptions of effective height, I now believe I have ar= ound 200uW ERP on the band - heck this is high power for me!

>From now until late this evening I will run the WSPR beacon (136kHz USB di= al) in the hope that a few more people will be able to copy the QRPp signa= l. Please have a go and let me have any reports.

73s and good luck

Roger G3XBM

--
g3xbm-qrp.blo= gspot.com/
www.g3xbm.co.uk<= br> www.youtub= e.com/user/g3xbm
G3XBM=A0=A0 GQRP 167= 8=A0=A0=A0 ISWL G11088



--
g3xbm-qrp.blo= gspot.com/
www.g3xbm.co.uk<= br> www.youtub= e.com/user/g3xbm
G3XBM=A0=A0 GQRP 167= 8=A0=A0=A0 ISWL G11088
=A0 =A0
=A0
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
=A0
=A0




--
g3xbm-qrp.blo= gspot.com/
www.g3xbm.co.uk www.youtub= e.com/user/g3xbm
G3XBM=A0=A0 GQRP 1678= =A0=A0=A0 ISWL G11088



--
g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
www.g3xbm.co.uk
= www.youtub= e.com/user/g3xbm
G3XBM=A0=A0 GQRP 1678= =A0=A0=A0 ISWL G11088
= 3D""
=20 =20
=A0 =A0
=20
=A0
3D"" =A0 3D"" =A0 =A0 =A0
=20
=A0
=A0
=20 =20 =20
=20 =20 =20 = =20
= =20
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=20
--90e6ba6e865235d29b049996e08d--