Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj08.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.144]) by air-me02.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINME024-8ba74d34b8c330a; Mon, 17 Jan 2011 16:46:43 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dj08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id CD219380000B1; Mon, 17 Jan 2011 16:46:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PewtD-0001tL-1n for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2011 21:45:27 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PewtC-0001tC-J2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2011 21:45:26 +0000 Received: from nm1-vm0.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.183.224]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PewtB-0006Hm-G9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2011 21:45:26 +0000 Received: from [217.146.183.184] by nm1.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2011 21:45:19 -0000 Received: from [217.146.183.74] by tm15.bullet.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2011 21:45:19 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1035.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 17 Jan 2011 21:45:19 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 651003.79380.bm@omp1035.mail.ukl.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 25510 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2011 21:45:19 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=DKIM-Signature:Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=p+XVQ2SDMGDwI8rO3np1/u4HP+vKa+NxPD2MwsHXO7frVffLZtBchVw7SF0ZnZQJBARq+6JtKAir28U68AIWFbI1k1CGrgPCrppLo4KJ3DH7EzFSGy5XtzbE3vLu1wczZhJtUQMtO0HflsuMSjcUC9TKppbTTS9fZF8bp6SUWXY= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btopenworld.com; s=s1024; t=1295300719; bh=ioIw+GqMkq84mg+OkX7ykYj6UyfS1WV9snAFdDraEKg=; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=fmUYptPOcFAvNubiIbQ3EmFAha/ryQQXUKAinvaupegP7BbLCAzBjSQMbqwdDR26n1fGlGH+cvkl0xz8/ISHp6DjGYxgmb9mp+nrvYcgpbek/uuZgKfumrOgRH7N6kxUuTYSRio+EbWVteZ5NN1OP4TaqRky3YO8ViVo1v6jfNE= Received: from JimPC (james.moritz@109.156.195.111 with login) by smtp816.mail.ukl.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2011 21:45:16 +0000 GMT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Cxhli3eswBD1ozmtAojhjrja86kWx0Qm9tycD5QR1DKWrOLgjJcXkw-- X-YMail-OSG: fXb1Aw8VM1k53eoYl7WBMkxSU.RnxBHcn03M93lBFLGQk7F Ri3Wl2KHcWtsmomA4rfK8XiK2G7wgDvMlEWmTUtQmUN65vg..1GSusNG7UHB HzX3LKg3YnpiRstXukPJnTBGxHqbxwgJakN_wkq0Plpv_a.ZUqvV4Cosh5XI zkm.JBm6H1yylpU.5fUs5nPzfy2uhiLYZeYL4a0j8l6fOdS5pb.DiqlPL7Mx NEQ7QELNU1OZ.zd3ZT_TB7RO4iDUbXyaZTiaE X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <8DD8B718050F41638ABA7A5AB1C37101@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 21:45:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6001.18416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6001.18483 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: LF Antena impedance and matching Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m278.2 ; domain : btopenworld.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d0d4d34b8c10974 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 Dear Andy, LF Group, The idea that any short feeder of only a few electrical degrees has virtually no effect on impedance seems to be popular, but it just isn't true as you show here. A more realistic statement would be: If the load impedance is of a similar magnitude to the feeder Zo, the short feeder will have little effect on the impedance. If the load impedance is much higher than Zo, the feeder will act as a shunt capacitor (100pF/m for Zo 50ohm), and if the load is much lower impedance, it will behave as a series inductance (0.25uH/m for Zo = 50ohm). Since the impedance at the point the feeder connects to the antenna tuner is at a fairly high impedance in this case, the 12m of 50ohm feeder behaves roughly as a 1200pF shunt capacitor, giving the parallel resonance peak. Moving the variometer to the antenna end of the feeder gets rid of a third, higher, resonant frequency, approximately where the variometer inductance is series resonant with the cable capacitance. But it does nothing to get rid of the parallel resonance in your plot, just shifts it a bit in frequency - all you are doing is adding to the loading coil inductance by a small, variable amount. I think with a high-Q antenna, these multiple resonances are unavoidable. The variometer-in-shack scheme becomes more manageable if the feeder has less capacitance. This can be done by having a high Zo feeder - probably the best feeder is just 2 wires, separated by a metre or more. This has a high Zo, more similar to the off-resonance impedance of the antenna, and a capacitance of probably < 10pF/m - the parallel resonance would still be there, but would be much further from the wanted series resonant frequency. I have used such an arrangement a few times, and it worked rather well - the wire between the variometer and loading coil needs to be reasonably well insulated and spaced from conducting objects. The wire from TX earth to antenna ground can just be laid on the ground. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU