Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.12]) by air-mb01.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMB011-a0764d371ac9103; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 12:09:29 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dg04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6203838000081; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 12:09:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PfbWF-0001ZB-8Y for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 17:08:27 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PfbWE-0001Z2-NM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 17:08:26 +0000 Received: from relay.uni-heidelberg.de ([129.206.100.212]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PfbWD-00055p-Dp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 17:08:26 +0000 Received: from ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (cyrus-portal.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.176]) by relay.uni-heidelberg.de (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id p0JH8Oct031306 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 18:08:24 +0100 Received: from extmail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (extmail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.140]) by ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p0JH8N4t006103 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 18:08:23 +0100 Received: from [147.142.13.152] (vpn513-152.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de [147.142.13.152]) by extmail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id p0JH8McX015489 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 19 Jan 2011 18:08:22 +0100 Message-ID: <4D371A8F.6090501@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 18:08:31 +0100 From: =?windows-1252?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100711 Thunderbird/3.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <005701cbb73e$5ccee770$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_02=0.192,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 Subject: Re: LF: Re: VLF Earth Mode does NOT need an NoV - official at last Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030802030800030406080706" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.2 required=5.0 tests=HTML_60_70,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410c4d371ac742fd X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --------------030802030800030406080706 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Roger, Am 19.01.2011 16:24, schrieb Roger Lapthorn: > > The 18.1.11 OFCOM email does appear to give a tacit go-ahead for > /anyone/ to experiment with essentially non-radiating earth mode > conduction without real restriction on a non-interference basis. To my > knowledge, this is the very first time anyone at a UK government > telecoms authority (Post Office, MPT and now OFCOM) has /ever/ made > this statement. > > It may be semantics, but I believe this is an important statement. > Well, english is not my mother language but for me it sounds the same. It is clear that even a loop with 10 cm diameter radiates some power at a given TX power. Maybe its 1 yW (1E-24 W) :-) but this seems to be OK for OFCOM. So, if they say the limit is not to disturb commercial stations, you may run several MW into your earth antenna or loop above the ground. The limit would be the antenna wire voltage. Maybe you can arrange a field day or rather a sea day in UK, where all the VLF enthusiasts come to the beach and rise a kite (each one) to build up an inv-L antenna, 60m up and 500m long! :-) Or Mal could use his inv-L with additional balloon antennas mounted on the vertical sections, 60m up, 5m spaced, so 90 balloon antennas if i remember his antenna correctly :-) 73, Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------030802030800030406080706 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by relay.uni-heidelberg.de id p0JH8Oct031306 Hi Roger,

Am 19.01.2011 16:24, schrieb Roger Lapthorn:

The 18.1.11 OFCOM email does appear to give a tacit go-ahead for anyone= to experiment with essentially non-radiating earth mode conduction without real restriction on a non-interference basis. To my knowledge, this is the very first time anyone at a UK government telecoms authority (Post Office, MPT and now OFCOM) has ever made this statement.

It may be semantics, but I believe this is an important statement.

Well, english is not my mother language but for me it sounds the same. It is clear that even a loop with 10 cm diameter radiates some power at a given TX power. Maybe its 1 yW (1E-24 W) :-) but this seems to be OK for OFCOM. So, if they say the limit is not to disturb commercial stations, you may run several MW into your earth antenna or loop above the ground. The limit would be the antenna wire voltage.

Maybe you can arrange a field day or rather a sea day in UK, where all the VLF enthusiasts come to the beach and rise a kite (each one) to build up an inv-L antenna, 60m up and 500m long! :-) Or Mal could use his inv-L with additional balloon antennas mounted on the vertical sections, 60m up, 5m spaced, so 90 balloon antennas if i remember his antenna correctly :-)

73, Stefan
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