Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.9]) by air-dd08.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDD082-86364d25ecc625d; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 11:24:38 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dg01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id ACFF9380000A1; Thu, 6 Jan 2011 11:24:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Pascq-0000qF-8l for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 16:23:44 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Pascp-0000q6-PK for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 16:23:43 +0000 Received: from relay2.uni-heidelberg.de ([129.206.210.211]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Pasco-0005VE-3J for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 16:23:43 +0000 Received: from ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (cyrus-portal.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.176]) by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p06GNffA022089 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2011 17:23:41 +0100 Received: from extmail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (extmail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de [129.206.100.140]) by ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p06GNeof010927 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2011 17:23:41 +0100 Received: from [147.142.8.165] (vpn508-165.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de [147.142.8.165]) by extmail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (8.13.4/8.13.1) with ESMTP id p06GNd6H006991 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2011 17:23:40 +0100 Message-ID: <4D25EC9A.6030201@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2011 17:23:54 +0100 From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.11) Gecko/20100711 Thunderbird/3.0.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_10_20=0.945,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 Subject: LF: adding a L into a 300m LF vertical? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070904000707000008000501" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41094d25ecc432a8 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --------------070904000707000008000501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LF, I've just done some simulations in EZNEC. The model is my 300m vertical that will be used on 137 kHz, probably this weekend. When choosing a lossless gound and no wire losses i get the radiation resistance of that antenna. It is 8.37 Ohm at 137.7 kHz. The reactance is -j588 Ohm, so 680 uH is needed to compensate that. Assuming 25 Ohm earth losses and 5 Ohm coil losses, the antenna efficiency is about 17 % (!). If i choose copper losses for the wire and keep the ground lossless AND add a L of 1 mH (plus 3 Ohm assumed coil losses) in a height of 100m (where i add the 100m wire to the 200m vertical wire, so no cut is needed), i am getting R(rad+wire)=22 Ohm and a reactance of j17 Ohm. Since the ground will add some capacity in this series circuit the actual reactance will be slightly capacitive again i assume. Assuming 25 Ohm earth losses will achieve about R=50 Ohm :-) and maybe almost no reactive part, so no coil is needed at the ground and the antenna can directly be connected to the RG58 cable (i would spend 10 kOhm against ground due to static voltages). The radiation resistance would be 13 Ohm (calculated by assuming lossless coil/wire/ground). So the antenna efficiency would be 26%. Probably the effective height would be reduced due to stronger sagging of the antenna wire. This will reduce the efficiency a bit, depending on the wind. _Questions:_ Is my calculation reasonably useful? Would YOU add that coil in a height of 100m above GND? I tend to let it be since the improvement isn't that much and the effort is high. Furthermore the coil losses could be higher since i have to use a thin wire to keep the weight small... About the weekend: WX forecast says there will be strong wind but rain as well (not such a problem on LF). I already have the permission of the German air traffic control for that 300m antenna... :-) 73, Stefan/DK7FC --------------070904000707000008000501 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by relay2.uni-heidelberg.de id p06GNffA022089 LF,

I've just done some simulations in EZNEC. The model is my 300m vertical that will be used on 137 kHz, probably this weekend.

When choosing a lossless gound and no wire losses i get the radiation resistance of that antenna. It is 8.37 Ohm at 137.7 kHz. The reactance is -j588 Ohm, so 680 uH is needed to compensate that. Assuming 25 Ohm earth losses and 5 Ohm coil losses, the antenna efficiency is about 17 % (!).


If i choose copper losses for the wire and keep the ground lossless=A0 AND add a L of 1 mH (plus 3 Ohm assumed coil losses) in a height of 100m (where i add the 100m wire to the 200m vertical wire, so no cut is needed), i am getting R(rad+wire)=3D22 Ohm and a reactance of j17 Ohm. Since the ground will add some capacity in this series circuit the actual reactance will be slightly capacitive again i assume. Assuming 25 Ohm earth losses will achieve about R=3D50 Ohm :-) and maybe almost no reactive part, so no coil is needed at the ground and the antenna can directly be connected to the RG58 cable (i would spend 10 kOhm against ground due to static voltages). The radiation resistance would be 13 Ohm (calculated by assuming lossless coil/wire/ground). So the antenna efficiency would be 26%.

Probably the effective height would be reduced due to stronger sagging of the antenna wire. This will reduce the efficiency a bit, depending on the wind.

Questions: Is my calculation reasonably useful? Would YOU add that coil in a height of 100m above GND?

I tend to let it be since the improvement isn't that much and the effort is high. Furthermore the coil losses could be higher since i have to use a thin wire to keep the weight small...

About the weekend: WX forecast says there will be strong wind but rain as well (not such a problem on LF).
I already have the permission of the German air traffic control for that 300m antenna... :-)

73, Stefan/DK7FC
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