Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj06.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.142]) by air-dc10.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDC104-86a84d3c3065185; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 08:43:01 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-dj06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id F21B1380000BB; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 08:42:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ph0Cm-00085F-FF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 13:42:08 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ph0Cl-000856-S4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 13:42:07 +0000 Received: from out1.ip07ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.243]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ph0Ci-0003Q8-Uy for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 13:42:07 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhYFAG+/O01cHYII/2dsb2JhbACEE44cg26OTnOteY8mhFx0BIFfjQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,365,1291593600"; d="scan'208,217";a="477433059" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.29.130.8]) by out1.ip07ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2011 13:41:57 +0000 Message-ID: <005f01cbbb03$4c59f150$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <4CA5E86D.1070208@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> ,<6F6098420211436FABB78BE04E5F8FAD@JimPC> ,<000901cb6215$2db60550$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> ,<4CA7096F.7070307@freenet.de> ,<25B77CFFDA13430086BE150894C4D3C3@Black> ,<5C71BB4133A642F7A2D06B26B567880D@Black> , ,<65DFBC8F38CD4AF48A62C61B6BC4DCC4@Black> , , ,<4CF78D62.9070403@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> ,<4CF923F3.5070407@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> ,<931923.22241.qm@web111910.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> ,<265816.87720.qm@web111910.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> ,<1295773648.1527.1.camel@gerhard-desktop> <1295784098.1527.29.camel@gerhard-desktop> <1295787191.1527.38.camel@gerhard-desktop> Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 13:41:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Transmissions on 8970Hz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005C_01CBBB03.4C174300" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d0b4d3c30631144 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01CBBB03.4C174300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Markus The metal vapour barrier might cause Condensation in the roof, like= a tin roof on a house or shed Do you get drips from the metal de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 1:21 PM Subject: Re: LF: Transmissions on 8970Hz Hi Gerhard, compared to the capacitive fields of the antenna at VLF, the buildin= g will anyway be nearly a short circuit to ground. Connecting the ligh= tning protector will divert some of the current which would otherwise= be going through the house, but the relative difference in the extern= al E-field distribution will only be small.=20 I have a similar situation with the LF TX antenna, which is about 10= m above the roof of our two-floor house. There is a vapour barrier ma= de of thin aluminium sheets under the roof, and two of the strips can= be accessed electrically. By connecting those to ground, about 15 per= cent of the total antenna current could be collected, and this helped= to significantly reduce the e-fields indoors, and also slightly the= loss resistance. On your grabber, it looks like you have switched frequency from 8970= .00 to 8969.97 sometime around 12:15 - was this a real step, or an art= ifact due to receiver samplerate correction? Best 73, Markus From: Gerhard Hickl=20 Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 1:53 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: LF: Transmissions on 8970Hz Hello again! At about 12:30UT I disconnected the lightning protector again. At 500mA Antenna current the wires from the roof are at about 200V= and the current to earth was measured at 60mA. I did this connecting/disconnecting-test now several times but the signal received by Lubos in 40km distance didn't show any noticeable difference. That's a riddle to me. The only difference I notice locally, is that the field-strength in= my shack (directly under the roof) is much higher when the protector is disconnected because the shielding effect of all the metal parts on= the roof isn't given any more. This also can be seen on my grabber. 73 Gerhard =20 Am Sonntag, den 23.01.2011, 13:01 +0100 schrieb Gerhard Hickl: > Hello Lubos and group! >=20 > Yes, I started at about 11UT. >=20 > Yesterday at 12:45UT I reconnected the lightning protector of the= house > to ground but I couldn't see any difference on the plot you sent. >=20 > So I guess if connected or not doesn't play a big role. On the oth= er > hand, there's a high voltage on the wire coming down the roof whic= h must > lead to some current flowing to ground. >=20 > Maybe I will disconnect again in the afternoon and measure Voltage= and > Current. >=20 > Today we have strong wind here and I will see how long I can keep= the TX > running. >=20 > 73, tnx > OE3GHB > Gerhard >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Am Sonntag, den 23.01.2011, 12:40 +0100 schrieb Lubos OK2BVG: > > Hello Gerhard, VLF! > > I noticed, that you had started transmissin at 11:00UT ( S/N =3D= 15dB). > > I saw Ossi=C2=B4s transmission from 09:30 to 11:00UT, but very= weakly, as > > usual > >=20 > >=20 > > Lubos, oK2BVG > >=20 > >=20 > > *************************** > >=20 > > > From: gerhard.hickl@aon.at > > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > > Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 10:07:28 +0100 > > > Subject: Re: LF: Transmissions on 8970Hz > > >=20 > > > Hello Daniele, group! > > >=20 > > > I will fire up later slightly below 8970. > > >=20 > > > Ossi is already transmitting. > > >=20 > > > 73 > > > OE3GHB > > > Gerhard > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > Am Sonntag, den 23.01.2011, 00:54 -0800 schrieb Daniele Tincan= i: > > > > Hello VLF, > > > > any transmission tests planned today? > > > > Regards > > > > D. > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01CBBB03.4C174300 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Markus
The metal vapour barrier might cause= =20 Condensation  in the roof, like a tin roof on a house or shed
Do you get drips from the metal
de mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 201= 1 1:21=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Transmission= s on=20 8970Hz

Hi Gerhard,
 
compared to the capacitive fie= lds of the=20 antenna at VLF, the building will anyway be nearly a short circ= uit to=20 ground. Connecting the lightning protector will divert some of the= current=20 which would otherwise be going through the house, but the= relative=20 difference in the external E-field distribution will only be=20 small. 
 
I have a similar situation with the LF TX antenna, which is&nbs= p;about 10=20 m above the roof of our two-floor house. There is a vapour barr= ier made=20 of thin aluminium sheets under the roof, and two of the st= rips can=20 be accessed electrically. By connecting those to ground, about&= nbsp;15=20 percent of the total antenna current could be collected, and th= is helped=20 to significantly reduce the e-fields indoors, and also slightly the= loss=20 resistance.
 
On your grabber, it looks like you= have switched=20 frequency from 8970.00 to 8969.97 sometime around 12:15 -= was this a=20 real step, or an artifact due to receiver samplerate correction?
 
Best 73,
Markus
 

Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 1:53 PM
Subject: RE: LF: Transmissions on 8970Hz

Hello again!

At about 12:30UT I disconnected= the=20 lightning protector again.

At 500mA Antenna current the wires= from the=20 roof are at about 200V and
the current to earth was measured at= =20 60mA.

I did this connecting/disconnecting-test now several ti= mes but=20 the
signal received by Lubos in 40km distance didn't show any=20 noticeable
difference. That's a riddle to me.

The only dif= ference I=20 notice locally, is that the field-strength in my
shack (directly= under the=20 roof) is much higher when the protector is
disconnected because= the=20 shielding effect of all the metal parts on the
roof isn't given= any more.=20 This also can be seen on my=20 grabber.

73
Gerhard




 


<= BR>
Am=20 Sonntag, den 23.01.2011, 13:01 +0100 schrieb Gerhard Hickl:
>= Hello=20 Lubos and group!
>
> Yes, I started at about 11UT.
&= gt;=20
> Yesterday at 12:45UT I reconnected the lightning protector= of the=20 house
> to ground but I couldn't see any difference on the plo= t you=20 sent.
>
> So I guess if connected or not doesn't play= a big role.=20 On the other
> hand, there's a high voltage on the wire coming= down the=20 roof which must
> lead to some current flowing to ground.
&= gt;=20
> Maybe I will disconnect again in the afternoon and measure= Voltage=20 and
> Current.
>
> Today we have strong wind here= and I=20 will see how long I can keep the TX
> running.
>
>= ; 73,=20 tnx
> OE3GHB
> Gerhard
>
>
>
>= ;
>=20 Am Sonntag, den 23.01.2011, 12:40 +0100 schrieb Lubos OK2BVG:
>= ; >=20 Hello Gerhard, VLF!
> > I noticed, that you had started tra= nsmissin=20 at 11:00UT ( S/N =3D 15dB).
> >  I saw Ossi=C2=B4s tra= nsmission from=20 09:30 to 11:00UT, but very weakly, as
> > usual
> >= ;
>=20 >
> > Lubos, oK2BVG
> >
> >
>= >=20 ***************************
> >
> > > From: gerhard.hickl@aon.at
= > > >=20 To: rsgb_lf_grou= p@blacksheep.org
>=20 > > Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 10:07:28 +0100
> > > Su= bject: Re:=20 LF: Transmissions on 8970Hz
> > >
> > > Hel= lo=20 Daniele, group!
> > >
> > > I will fire up= later=20 slightly below 8970.
> > >
> > > Ossi is al= ready=20 transmitting.
> > >
> > > 73
> >= >=20 OE3GHB
> > > Gerhard
> > >
> > >= ;
>=20 > >
> > > Am Sonntag, den 23.01.2011, 00:54 -0800= schrieb=20 Daniele Tincani:
> > > > Hello VLF,
> > >= > any=20 transmission tests planned today?
> > > > Regards
= > >=20 > > D.
> > > >
> > > >
>= > >=20
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>= ;
>=20


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