Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.10]) by air-df05.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDF052-5ef34d1a338412e; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 13:59:16 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-di06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 92FB0380038FC; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 13:33:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PXeLm-0002NH-W4 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 18:32:46 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PXeLm-0002N8-Ak for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 18:32:46 +0000 Received: from relay01.pair.com ([209.68.5.15]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PXeLj-0001un-SD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 18:32:46 +0000 Received: (qmail 60247 invoked from network); 28 Dec 2010 18:32:40 -0000 Received: from 64.206.3.50 (HELO ?192.168.1.56?) (64.206.3.50) by relay01.pair.com with SMTP; 28 Dec 2010 18:32:40 -0000 X-pair-Authenticated: 64.206.3.50 Message-ID: <4D1A2EED.7020607@charter.net> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 13:39:41 -0500 From: John Andrews User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.9) Gecko/20100915 Thunderbird/3.1.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <101B609FB6D54B6D9FF4102ED3E158BE@AGB> <94EA5354DC8E4A60BCD14F3398302FFD@AGB> In-Reply-To: <94EA5354DC8E4A60BCD14F3398302FFD@AGB> X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD=1.426 Subject: Re: LF: 160 to 190 KHz a real magic band ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400a4d1a2d907070 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Graham, In the U.S., 160-190 kHz is available for unlicensed use with the 1 watt DC + 15 meter antenna as previously mentioned. This has nothing to do with Amateur Radio. There are no assigned call signs or any government documentation required. There are no limits on emissions other than staying in the band and keeping reasonable harmonic/spurious levels. The call sign that Andy was using was purely made-up...generally we do not use amateur call signs lest an ID'd signal be confused with something restricted to ham bands. There is no legal requirement for an ID at all, in fact. And to make things even more confusing, a number of Amateur operators have applied for and received Experimental Service licenses for various frequency ranges at LF/MF. But the licenses are not in the Amateur service, and have assigned call signs with an "X" at the start of the suffix. There are currently no ham bands below 1.8 MHz in the U.S. These Experimental licenses allow whatever is requested (and approved), and usually involve higher power and bigger antennas similar to those in use elsewhere in the Amateur service. Emission types must be specified in the license application, and must fit in the requested allocation. We are required to ID by CW or voice at least once every 30 minutes. Regarding groundwave coverage, 160-190 kHz is much more similar to 137 than 500 kHz. The unlicensed stations with good antenna setups can expect 200-300 miles in the winter daytime. The longer distances you see reported are usually via "skywave" at night, and as others have noted, may involve short-duration signal peaks. All of this is very similar to operation at 137 kHz. John, W1TAG On 12/28/2010 1:04 PM, Graham wrote: > Ok Warren > > Not sure what the land is like in Tennessee , Andy says he was getting > reliable wspr decodes over 400/500 miles , but that was from -LF- hams , > all the same , with the Ae and power , that's going some .... thought it > was a bit like 500 , where compared to 160 , ground wave is good to 70 > miles > > If its a un licensed band how did you get a licence ? > > Q what dose the licence say about modes of emission (hint > recent lofer > posts ) > > 73 - G.. > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Warren Ziegler" > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 5:33 PM > To: > Subject: Re: LF: 160 to 190 KHz a real magic band ? > >> >> Graham, >> >> Yes 2000km is very good for one watt but is not to be expected on a >> regular basis! >> I have an experimental license that lets me run 10W ERP on 160-190kHz, >> my best guess is that with 250W out my ERP is less than 1/2W. Most of >> the time 250W is not sufficient to cover 2000km so you can imagine >> just how rare a 2000km reception is with 1 Watt !! >> >> -- >> 73 Warren K2ORS >> WD2XGJ >> WD2XSH/23 >> WE2XEB/2 >> WE2XGR/1 >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Graham wrote: >>> 1/4 KW ? >>> >>> Andy is talking about 1 watt dc feed to the PA and a short Ae , I >>> thought 2000 kmt was good going for 1 watt >>> >>> is it the same band ? >>> >>> G.. >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Warren Ziegler" >>> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 5:08 PM >>> To: >>> Subject: Re: LF: 160 to 190 KHz a real magic band ? >>> >>>> >>>> I occasionally put a beacon on the 180 kHz band with 250 Watts out and >>>> have been copied in France and the Netherlands during the time each >>>> night that Europe 1 is off. >>>> No magic, about the same results as 137kHz except that 137 is quieter. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> 73 Warren K2ORS >>>> WD2XGJ >>>> WD2XSH/23 >>>> WE2XEB/2 >>>> WE2XGR/1 >>>> >>>> On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Gary - G4WGT >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Graham, >>>>> Have a listen after dark, I seem to remember it was quite >>>>> horrendous last >>>>> time I looked at that part of the spectrum. I will have another listen >>>>> tonight. I think the EU chaps wait until Europe1 has stopped Txing. >>>>> Here >>>>> is >>>>> one frequency I know of, extract from Joe's e-mail. >>>>> VO1NA, 184.509.3kHz >>>>> TX about 5 watts 0.4 amps to 100m wire at 15 m high. >>>>> 73, >>>>> Gary - G4WGT - IO83qo. >>>>> LF MF Grabber - Web Site - Blogspot - 9kHz Grabber >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 28 December 2010 16:22, Graham wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Ok Gary, >>>>>> >>>>>> Seems to be some quite big gaps in that spectrum , big enough for >>>>>> a cw filter and wspr signal to sit with no splash ? >>>>>> >>>>>> G >>>>>> >>>>>> Nb looks like someone has the spam filter -mal-adjusted- ? >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>> From: Gary - G4WGT >>>>>> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 2:54 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: LF: 160 to 190 KHz a real magic band ? >>>>>> Graham, >>>>>> I have occasionally read mails on LF regarding U.S. 184kHz qrs >>>>>> beacons & >>>>>> captures from Europe. Apparently there is a very powerful broadcast >>>>>> station >>>>>> in Europe on a near frequency which causes high qrm when on, I >>>>>> believe >>>>>> it is >>>>>> "Europe1" >>>>>> Gary - G4WGT. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 28 December 2010 12:16, Graham wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lifted from the WSPR web site http://wsprnet.org/drupal/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1 watt and 15 mtrs of antenna ,decoding over 1148 kmtrs , (best >>>>>>> round 2000k) seems to make the 137 attempts look a little 'coy >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> somewhat bigger power levels and rather large arrays , (possibly >>>>>>> mal-adjusted ?) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is this a band like 500 with enhanced propagation ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> WHAT IS THE POSSIBILITY OF A TA DECODE ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The frequency range is 160 to 190 KHz. This is most commonly >>>>>>> known as >>>>>>> Part-15 operation ( under our FCC Part-15 rules ). The basics: >>>>>>> Power is >>>>>>> limited to 1 Watt DC Input to the Final amplifier, and the antenna >>>>>>> length >>>>>>> cannot exceed 15 meters, including the feed line, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (XR4TN is the experimental call of KU4XR) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2010-12-10 11:16 XR4TN 0.185701 -27 0 EM75xr +30 1.000 W1VD >>>>>>> FN31is 1148 >>>>>>> G.. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> 73 Warren K2ORS >> WD2XGJ >> WD2XSH/23 >> WE2XEB/2 >> WE2XGR/1 >> >> > > > >