Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mg08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mg08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.208]) by air-md10.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMD102-8b994cf65d981d; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 09:37:12 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mg08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4C24D38000211; Wed, 1 Dec 2010 09:37:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PNnnJ-0002H6-Jd for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 14:36:29 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PNnnJ-0002Gx-7A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 14:36:29 +0000 Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.49]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PNnnI-0005XF-HG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 14:36:29 +0000 Received: from aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20101201143622.JHMM23441.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com> for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2010 14:36:22 +0000 Received: from [192.168.2.33] (really [82.5.252.56]) by aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vG.3.00.04.00 201-2196-133-20080908) with ESMTP id <20101201143622.ZCHA25842.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[192.168.2.33]> for ; Wed, 1 Dec 2010 14:36:22 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 14:36:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4CF65D62.21930.96EDB2@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) Content-description: Mail message body X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=JvdXmxIgLJv2/GthKqHpGJEEHukvLcvELVXUanXFreg= c=1 sm=0 a=9YlaCzn6_68A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ocDz5wSoPdIfA34mmP8A:9 a=mjTxVI3CSS2pAmSzcG8A:7 a=W04Y8VZAzolKx1HNRS1cxSTnbj0A:4 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=lujQkeoyFL1shwmI:21 a=v4y0AZdqDdJh4aMh:21 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Subject: LF: QRSS120 and grabbers Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60d04cf65d96047a X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 A recent message said that JA7NI needed a way to display more spectrum on his Argo grabber set to QRSS120. I posted a reply recommending SpecLab. This raises another issue that has concerned me for some time. There is a tendency for DX grabbers to be set to QRSS120, and quite a few beacons use that speed, or even QRSS240. Indeed if the target grabber is set for QRSS120, the transmit station must use at least this dot length to be read successfully. I believe the danger is to regard this as the 'optimum' speed for DX working, simply because the S/N ratio is good. In practice, there is another factor in play. There is often rapid and deep fading on a DX path, often resulting in only parts of letters being received at this speed, even though the peak signal is quite strong (see many of the pictures of transatlantic reception regularly posted on this group). The situation becomes worse if the final aim of experimenting with a path is to have a two-way DX QSO. Even exchanging minimal information, a QSO will take several hours, during which time the conditions must hold up. Take a look at VE7TIL's excellent DCF39 graph to see how short a good DX opening usually is - perhaps an hour if you are lucky. The very few who have had transatlantic QSOs have used QRSS30 or at most QRSS60. I am not aware of a successful two-way involving a longer dot length. I would suggest that DX beacons and grabbers use a =maximum= of 60s dot length (though a second grabber screen could be provided for 120 etc if desired). In my opinion this would be more likely to result in useful propagation data. Any thoughts? Mike, G3XDV ==========