From: g4gvw <g4gvw@aol.com>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
In-Reply-To: <001601cba2cc$b7138910$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf>
References: <4D122CE9.26517.19CC01F@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com>
	 <BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C88715AE9BD@ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be>
	 <E93ACBBD7EA842B0AB8E3A577C3F41CA@IBM7FFA209F07C>
	 <776F8577325D4C4881D6DFA12096E0D3@AGB>
	 <001601cba2cc$b7138910$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 19:54:36 +0000
Message-Id: <1293134076.24424.16.camel@pat-compaq-evo>
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Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: Full ID
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Mal,

For many of us who, while licensed radio amateurs, are mainly interested
in the behaviour of the spectrum and the medium via which signals are
propagated, beacons at UHF, VHF, HF, MF, LF et. al. have for many years
been a perfectly acceptable and legitimate resource. We don't need to
dictate an ID protocol to those generous of their time who provide them.
All we need to know (ideally in advance) is how to identify the resource
and its location together with a few technical details. At that point
most of us are possessed of enough innate and inherent wit to engage our
grey matter and draw such conclusions as may be appropriate. These
skills are often of more import than the need to achieve a highly
regulated and often "rubber-stamped" exchange whose main aim seems to
require that some variety of "points-table" is constantly updated with
an increasing number!

I wish for Christmas SANITY - and Please May It extend THROUGHOUT 2011


On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 18:10 +0000, mal hamilton wrote:
> We do not need Beacons on LF this is the problem also why do Appliance
> Operators on LF need to deviate from the procedures used on all the other
> amateur bands, who ever heard of single letter Beacons on HF, in fact Beacon
> operators on HF need special permission.
> Radio Operators on the other hand in QSO mode on any band do not have this
> problem
> g3kev
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Graham" <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>
> To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 5:32 PM
> Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: Full ID
> 
> 
> > I Suggested a  timed  beacon system, a long time ago   , similar to the
> > g3plx  5 meg  monitoring  system , where  stations simply took an
> available
> > time slot and transmitted a  long  pulse ... monitoring  software  then
> > simply  looked in the  slots and gave a  real  time s/n  reading , also
> > enabled  stations  could  be  in rx  mode during there  'off' period ....
> >
> > Then  wspr  appeared .......game over ..or is it  ...
> >
> > So what about a  timed  beacon system that  uses  allocated time slots and
> > the  monitoring system  keeps track  or who is using  which slot  ..
> > what a  strange idea .. but  for  LF  may have  big advantages
> >
> > All  on the same  frequency -so  no  problem  with  Ae Q / B/W leaving
> the
> > band open  for other modes
> > NO   need  for  silly  long  tx periods , melting  station accessories
> > ONLY   needs rudimental  time  lock
> >
> > OH and one  little  oversight .. all  you  need  is a  -CW-  transmitter ,
> > no  frequency shift keying , no  audio  to  rf  translation ,
> >
> > Down side . needs  some one to  write the  control  software ........in
> fact
> > Andy , ran the  basic idea  on 500  for quite a  while , using  -one-  of
> > the  three  time slots  of the  g3plx system, with Gary providing a
> off-air
> > on line  monitor  200  miles  north
> >
> > G
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------
> > From: "Chris" <c.ashby435@btinternet.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 11:20 AM
> > To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
> > Subject: LF: Re: RE: Full ID
> >
> > >
> > > Hi Rik,
> > > The idea is fine. But, the problems I have with this are (1) Stations
> > > don't always notify us who they are and what they are up to (Mike,
> G3XDV,
> > > is a perfect example of how it should be done, keeping us FULLY
> informed),
> > > and (2) is where I agree with Stefan, what about listeners (lookers) who
> > > are not on this refelector? Two letters are of little use to them. I
> know
> > > two stations near me who look on 137 but are not on here - for various
> > > reasons.
> > > You just can't beat a full callsign, even if you do sometimes only get
> > > snatches of it. As it is, stations are often 'identified' by frequency
> > > with very dubious visual evidence!
> > > Chris, G4AYT.
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Rik Strobbe" <Rik.Strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>
> > > To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 10:04 AM
> > > Subject: LF: RE: Full ID
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Mike, all,
> > >
> > > for propagation test purposes (sound much better than beaconing) all we
> > > need is an unambiguous identification. A single character will lead to
> > > confusion, but 2 characters should do the job.
> > > So what about using the 2 last characters of the callsign ?
> > > That would make most ID's more or less of the same length.
> > > G3XDV would use "DV", OR7T would use "7T", DF6NM would use "NM" and so
> on.
> > > I cannot see any conflicts right now (= 2 stations active in propagation
> > > tests with identical 2 last characters).
> > > Is national law requires a full id it can always be send in 12WMP CW.
> > >
> > > 73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T
> > >
> > > ________________________________________
> > > Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> > > [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Mike Dennison
> > > [mike.dennison@ntlworld.com]
> > > Verzonden: woensdag 22 december 2010 17:52
> > > Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> > > Onderwerp: LF: Full ID
> > >
> > > OK, it seems that most people want full suffixes to be sent. I
> > > believe I had good reasons to use a short ID, but I am happy to go
> > > along with the majority view.
> > >
> > > Of course the final straw was Mal threatening not to talk to me!
> > >
> > > Beacon tonight (in addition to, and not instead of, real QSOs) will
> > > be on 136.177kHz, 'XDV' synchronised with the start of each hour.
> > >
> > > 73 de Mike
> > > ========
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
-- 
73 es gd dx de pat g4gvw
 qth nr felixstowe uk
(east coast, county of suffolk)