DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
        d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
        h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
         :content-type;
        b=D03PallrE0LmE4MO1cVteaqPDqP4feG5Jidc9h58+sMHcTeAhdJYmTodbDYuS+W7Il
         5YQ00/FhiqNkPuoJSMztNKPolkWWeRpjwX4dp++r0ikcabjI4nIZG1klIR2EWG81rB23
         g1p/ez2D2qXlRC4766kEFEeZxCLkaEM6HKtqU=
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <4CD185BC.6040805@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
References: <AANLkTinHs0U7O0bjrk8aD9GaYDA0=ByYu81=81eGtKPM@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CD185BC.6040805@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 22:18:15 +0000
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=DuJuUHr5TjsGGMGseD1ep364iHv=9Dvfs45sM@mail.gmail.com>
From: Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
DomainKey-Status: good (testing) 
Subject: Re: LF: UK Dreamer's Band first transmission (8.760kHz)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016368e33edf136dc04942d6ac3
Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org


--0016368e33edf136dc04942d6ac3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Stefan,

G6ALB is 3km away and he is hoping to copy my signal on 8.76kHz in the nea=
r
future. This should be possible with a stable signal, accurate frequency
setting, a bit more power and slow QRSS. My DX today was much further than
his QTH but I could not reach his QTH on 838Hz in a quick test in QRSS3 ba=
ck
in the summer.  We will be able to have a cross-band QSO, albeit slowly wh=
en
we succeed.

The list of things to do on VLF are:

   - Sort out Spectrum Lab so I can know exactly where I am transmitting=
 and
   receiving (just a matter of familiarisation).
   - Try the vertical loop antenna on TX and compare results locally
   - Try ground electrode antennas at the RX end
   - Try elevating the horizontal loop slightly above ground (this is a
   suggestion from my NoV contact at the Met Office based on some research=
 with
   Omega beacon reception)
   - Increasing the TX power to around 100W
   - Increasing the earth electrode spacing (I can run out a 100m long
   baseline in the fields behind my house for short periods)
   - Optimising further the RX hardware (loop, E-field probe and preamp)
   - Receive a signal from you when all is optimised!
   - Receive a signal from G3XIZ and G7NKS on the Dreamers Band
   - etc, etc....

Next week is not possible as it is our grandson's 3rd birthday and he is
coming here with his French grandparents, mum and dad, so ham radio is out
but it will be a lovely occasion.

Basically I still feel I am "dabbling at the edges" of good Dreamer's Band
techniques whereas as you and other real experts (yes I mean this) are doi=
ng
the work professionally. My task is to learn from you and others and
gradually improve my capability on VLF to the point where useful results=
 can
be achieved.

73s
Roger G3XBM

2010/11/3 Stefan Sch=E4fer <Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>

>  Hi Roger,
>
> Wish you good luck and fun with the experiments!
>
> Who is the next possibe RX station and what is the distance? What is his=
 RX
> situation?
>
> Maybe you can monitor your own generated TX signal on a high accuracy
> soundcard based VLF RX to get some informations about its stability. Thi=
s
> would help you to find the slowest useful QRSS mode for this setup/VFO.
>
> Will you do some /p TX experiments? I mean, generating 4W (or 20 W) is=
 not
> a problem with a small lead acid battery and you could arrange a secret
> earth antenna in the forest, some km away and some 100m long :-)
>
> Do you plan to arrange a fixed VLF RX antenna to monitor the other NoV
> holders? Maybe a first QSO in UK like between DF6NM and DJ2LF?
>
> Interesting stuff!
>
>
> 73, Stefan/DK7FC
>
> Am 03.11.2010 15:18, schrieb Roger Lapthorn:
>
> This morning from 0915-1115 GMT I transmitted a QRSS3 beacon signal on
> 8.760kHz under the terms of my Dreamer's Band NoV recently received.  I
> think this may be a first in the UK, legally at least.
>
> TX was 4W from a TDA2002 audio IC matched into earth electrodes 20m apar=
t.
> The beacon message (callsign and QTH locator in QRSS3)  was provided by=
 a
> K1EL keyer chip and the frequency reference was an HF crystal divided do=
wn
> by 512 times in a 4060 divider IC. Clear QRSS3 reception was possible *
> 5.1km* away from the transmitter location (see attached screen shot from
> Spectran), detecting the signal with an 80cm loop fed into an E-field pr=
obe
> (Hi-Z input) into Spectran software. Marginal reception was just possibl=
e at
> 5.3km. Best reception was always with the loop flat on the ground sugges=
ting
> the main mode of propagation is utilities assisted earth mode, as was th=
e
> case at 838Hz back in the summer.
>
> Comparing results on 8.76kHz with those at 838Hz earlier in the summer=
 in
> several locations from 1.5km out to 5.4km, my first impressions are that
> signal levels are at least 6dB weaker on 8.76kHz, but more careful tests
> will be needed. When I tried to look for any sign of radiated signals by
> aligning the loop vertically end-on to the TX location, no signals were
> detected although with QRSS3 and receiving in the bandwidth used this wo=
uld
> have been very optimistic with 4W from the transmitter into earth
> electrodes.
>
> In the next couple of days I want to try the same set of tests using the
> 70m square vertical TX loop used on 500kHz and 136kHz. If my theory is
> correct and this is utilities assisted earth mode then I would expect
> results to be far worse with the loop as there will be less strong coupl=
ing
> into the ground.
>
> At some point in the near future I will do some extremely slow QRSS test=
s
> and let people know beforehand when the transmissions will take place.=
 There
> is some remote chance that slightly more distant stations may be able to
> detect the signal although I have not been able to measure my frequency=
 with
> the precision really needed yet.
>
> As I said some days ago, these tests are not at all in the same class as
> Stefan's experiments, but they are fun to do and I'm learning all the ti=
me.
>
> UK dreaming has started, if only modestly.
>
> 73s
> Roger G3XBM
>
>
> --
> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
> http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm
> G3XBM   GQRP 1678    ISWL G11088
>
>


--=20
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm
G3XBM   GQRP 1678    ISWL G11088

--0016368e33edf136dc04942d6ac3
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Stefan,<br><br>G6ALB is 3km away and he is hoping to copy my signal on=
 8.76kHz in the near future. This should be possible with a stable signal,=
 accurate frequency setting, a bit more power and slow QRSS. My DX today=
 was much further than his QTH but I could not reach his QTH on 838Hz in=
 a quick test in QRSS3 back in the summer.=A0 We will be able to have a cr=
oss-band QSO, albeit slowly when we succeed.<br>

<br>The list of things to do on VLF are:<br><ul><li>Sort out Spectrum Lab=
 so I can know exactly where I am transmitting and receiving (just a matte=
r of familiarisation).</li><li>Try the vertical loop antenna on TX and com=
pare results locally</li>
<li>Try ground electrode antennas at the RX end</li>
<li>Try elevating the horizontal loop slightly above ground (this is a sug=
gestion from my NoV contact at the Met Office based on some research with=
 Omega beacon reception)</li><li>Increasing the TX power to around 100W</l=
i>
<li>Increasing the earth electrode spacing (I can run out a 100m long base=
line in the fields behind my house for short periods)</li>
<li>Optimising further the RX hardware (loop, E-field probe and preamp)</l=
i><li>Receive a signal from you when all is optimised!<br></li><li>Receive=
 a signal from G3XIZ and G7NKS on the Dreamers Band<br></li><li>etc, etc..=
..<br>
</li></ul>Next week is not possible as it is our grandson&#39;s 3rd birthd=
ay and he is coming here with his French grandparents, mum and dad, so ham=
 radio is out but it will be a lovely occasion.<br>
<br>Basically I still feel I am &quot;dabbling at the edges&quot; of good=
 Dreamer&#39;s Band techniques whereas as you and other real experts (yes=
 I mean this) are doing the work professionally. My task is to learn from=
 you and others and gradually improve my capability on VLF to the point wh=
ere useful results can be achieved.<br>

<br>73s<br>Roger G3XBM<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2010/11/3 Stefan=
 Sch=E4fer <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni=
-heidelberg.de" target=3D"_blank">Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de</a=
>&gt;</span><br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; bord=
er-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">



 =20

<div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff" text=3D"#000000">
Hi Roger,<br>
<br>
Wish you good luck and fun with the experiments!<br>
<br>
Who is the next possibe RX station and what is the distance? What is
his RX situation?<br>
<br>
Maybe you can monitor your own generated TX signal on a high accuracy
soundcard based VLF RX to get some informations about its stability.
This would help you to find the slowest useful QRSS mode for this
setup/VFO.<br>
<br>
Will you do some /p TX experiments? I mean, generating 4W (or 20 W) is
not a problem with a small lead acid battery and you could arrange a
secret earth antenna in the forest, some km away and some 100m long :-)<br=
>
<br>
Do you plan to arrange a fixed VLF RX antenna to monitor the other NoV
holders? Maybe a first QSO in UK like between DF6NM and DJ2LF?<br>
<br>
Interesting stuff!<br>
<br>
<br>
73, Stefan/DK7FC<br>
<br>
Am 03.11.2010 15:18, schrieb Roger Lapthorn:
<blockquote type=3D"cite">This morning from 0915-1115 GMT I transmitted a=
 QRSS3
beacon signal on 8.760kHz under the terms of my Dreamer&#39;s Band NoV
recently received.=A0 I think this may be a first in the UK, legally at
least.<br>
  <br>
TX was 4W from a TDA2002 audio IC matched into earth electrodes 20m
apart. The beacon message (callsign and QTH locator in QRSS3)=A0 was
provided by a K1EL keyer chip and the frequency reference was an HF
crystal divided down by 512 times in a 4060 divider IC. Clear QRSS3
reception was possible <b>5.1km</b> away from the transmitter location
(see attached screen shot from Spectran), detecting the signal with an
80cm loop fed into an E-field probe (Hi-Z input) into Spectran
software. Marginal reception was just possible at 5.3km. Best reception
was always with the loop flat on the ground suggesting the main mode of
propagation is utilities assisted earth mode, as was the case at 838Hz
back in the summer. <br>
  <br>
Comparing results on 8.76kHz with those at 838Hz earlier in the summer
in several locations from 1.5km out to 5.4km, my first impressions are
that signal levels are at least 6dB weaker on 8.76kHz, but more careful
tests will be needed.
When I tried to look for any sign of radiated signals by aligning the
loop vertically end-on to the TX location, no signals were detected
although with QRSS3 and receiving in the bandwidth used this would have
been very optimistic with 4W from the transmitter into earth electrodes.<b=
r>
  <br>
In the next couple of days I want to try the same set of tests using
the 70m square vertical TX loop used on 500kHz and 136kHz. If my theory
is correct and this is utilities assisted earth mode then I would
expect results to be far worse with the loop as there will be less
strong coupling into the ground.<br>
  <br>
At some point in the near future I will do some extremely slow QRSS
tests and let people know beforehand when the transmissions will take
place. There is some remote chance that slightly more distant stations
may be able to detect the signal although I have not been able to
measure my frequency with the precision really needed yet. <br>
  <br>
As I said some days ago, these tests are not at all in the same class
as Stefan&#39;s experiments, but they are fun to do and I&#39;m learning=
 all
the time.<br>
  <br>
UK dreaming has started, if only modestly.<br>
  <br>
73s<br>
Roger G3XBM<br>
  <br clear=3D"all">
  <br>
-- <br>
  <a href=3D"http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://g3xb=
m-qrp.blogspot.com/</a><br>
  <a href=3D"http://www.g3xbm.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">http://www.g3xbm.co=
.uk</a><br>
  <a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm" target=3D"_blank">http://w=
ww.youtube.com/user/g3xbm</a><br>
G3XBM=A0=A0 GQRP 1678=A0=A0=A0 ISWL G11088<br>
</blockquote>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><a href=3D"http://g3xb=
m-qrp.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/</a><=
br><a href=3D"http://www.g3xbm.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">http://www.g3xbm.c=
o.uk</a><br>


<a href=3D"http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm" target=3D"_blank">http://www=
.youtube.com/user/g3xbm</a><br>G3XBM=A0=A0 GQRP 1678=A0=A0=A0 ISWL G11088<=
br>

--0016368e33edf136dc04942d6ac3--