Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.81]) by air-da05.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDA053-863d4cdfb2162a7; Sun, 14 Nov 2010 04:55:34 -0500 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-da09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DBA9B380000AB; Sun, 14 Nov 2010 04:55:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PHZHP-0001sM-Vf for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Nov 2010 09:53:47 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PHZHP-0001sD-6p for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Nov 2010 09:53:47 +0000 Received: from out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.237]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PHZHN-0002rp-HK for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Nov 2010 09:53:47 +0000 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ar8CAA9A30xcHYQp/2dsb2JhbACQaYMxDo4xcbw3hUoEgVyMIQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.59,195,1288569600"; d="scan'208,217";a="332158529" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.29.132.41]) by out1.ip01ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2010 09:53:39 +0000 Message-ID: <003501cb83e1$cfc733d0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <4CDE81B2.10609@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4CDE898B.8090604@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <1D64BDBD8B0F4F14A399EBC253B515B8@White> <202187DBCDDD476B846782F3607D34B8@White> Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 09:53:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: VLF: TX on 6.47 and 8.97 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0032_01CB83E1.CF894070" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40514cdfb214334e X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01CB83E1.CF894070 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Markus There was another carrier visible at my qth. This carrier was visible= after you switched off but it also went qrt around 1340, the frequenc= y was 8970 kcs but not calibrated at my end so could be a little out.= Maybe this carrier was seen by F1AFJ if it is not your transmission.= =20 I wonder if anyone else in the UK detected any signals Gl with your experiments. de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Cc: Paul=20 Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 10:04 PM Subject: Re: VLF: TX on 6.47 and 8.97 Dear LF, Paul, here's a short summary of today's VLF kite transmission. I'm sorry= for the late notice, but the experiment had not been planned ahead,= and I wasn't sure if I could get on at all. Also, the kite I am using= (a 0.8 m^2 delta toy bought for 4.99 Euro) is a bit small for this so= rt of activity, and really requires a good and steady wind. =20 The QTH was actually at 49.3874 N 11.1692 E, a few 100 meters from= the former location reported earlier. The GPS-controlled carriers wer= e on air=20 11:15 - 12:15 6470.000 Hz ~ 50 uW, and=20 12:30 - 13:10 8970.002 Hz ~ 200 uW (EMRP). Getting on 6470 was easier than expected. I simply used the same "se= ven-bucket" coil, which resonates my 240 pF home antenna to 8.97 kHz.= Connected to the kite wire, the resonance was close enough to 6.5 kHz= to be tuned by the ferrite plate variometer. Then the drive for the= audio amp was increased until the onset of corona sizzling at 0.25 A.= At that point, the amp drew 10 A DC from the car battery and probably= delivered around 50 W. After connecting mobile internet and staring= at Stefan's grabber, I was positively surprised to find a faint trace= there! For the frequency change, I removed the two bottom coil buckets, whi= ch brought the resonance to ~ 8.5 kHz. Then I had to carefully pull th= e remaining 5 buckets apart, inserting bits of plastic foam material= as spacers. Going through a few iterations took about 10 minutes, and= I got to "full power" (380 mA, 100W) at 12:30. Unfortunately, the win= d had started to calm by then, and there were several dips during this= transmission. Finally at 13:10, the kite landed gently in the grass,= and I decided to close down and pack up early. Traces from both transmissions were visible on DK7FC's 4.5 mHz "600"= windows, and the second one also produced a nice dash on the 0.45 mHz= window. It is likely that these signals would be useful for a kite-to= -kite QSO on either frequency, using 10 minute dashes. The screenshot from F1AFJ has an interesting dash before 13:00. The= indicated frequency seems a bit high (8970.020 instead of 8970.002),= which could perhaps be due to a small samplerate calibration error.= I am also not sure about the time scale - judging by the width of th= e noise blobs, the setting could have been 11 mHz and 10 seconds per= pixel. It would be nice if Jean-Pierre could confirm the frequency ca= libration and scroll settings. I also carefully inspected the OE3GHB grabber, which runs at 1.4 mHz= resolution and seems to be very sensitive. It showed an unusually dar= k period of very low noise between 8 and 11 UT today. But no luck for= my transmission there yet. Well, in addition to the technical aspects, being outdoors in the wa= rm wind was again a rewarding and enjoyable experience.=20 Best 73, and thanks again for the interest.=20 Markus (DF6NM) From: Markus Vester=20 Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 2:19 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: VLF: TX on 6.47 and 8.97 - QRT Sorry folks, I had to shut down at 13:10 due to lack of wind. Many= thanks for looking! Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) From: Markus Vester=20 Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 2:08 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: VLF: TX on 6.47 and 8.97 Hi Stefan, thanks for the observation! I am approximately at 49.3851= N 11.1727 E. After a bit of fiddling with the coil, the carrier is on= 8970.002 since about 12:25. I will try to stay on till 14:00, but the= re are a few lows as the wind has calmed down a bit. 73, Markus From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 1:50 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: VLF: TX on 6.47 and 8.97 There is a trace now coming up slightly above 8970 Hz in the DFCW-60= 0 window :-) Markus, what is your exact locator? http://no.nonsense.ee/qthmap/ = Let us see where you are currently :-) 73, Stefan Am 13.11.2010 13:16, schrieb Stefan Sch=E4fer:=20 Wow! Hi Markus, Good luck!! Yes, the wind is very strong indeed. For my kites it= is almost to strong... With your kite you should easily be visible in the 6000er window= on 8970. OOOH! I just looked on my 2nd VLF grabber http://www.iup.uni-heide= lberg.de/schaefer_vlf/DK7FC_VLF_Grabber2.html and saw your trace in DF= CW-600!=20 Congratulations Markus!!!! This is the second amateur radio statio= n at all who reaches the far field within the 46km band :-) i estimate= 8 dB S/N maybe 10. Great!!! So DFCW-600 on 8970 should be no problem later :-)) Who else of the group is monitoring? It would strongly interest ho= w Markus is received at other locations :-)=20 Best 73 and wish FUN!! Stefan/DK7FC Am 13.11.2010 12:54, schrieb Markus Vester:=20 Nice wind here in Nuernberg, and I'm back on the /p QTH with my= small kite (100m wire, kite currently about 60m up). Since 11:15 I am= sending a carrier on 6470.00, trying to generate a small peak on DK7F= C's second grabber. Max current into the thin wire is about 0.25 A. Af= ter one hour at 12:15, I intend to switch to 8970.002 Hz, where I can= radiate about 0.2 mW at 0.4 A. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01CB83E1.CF894070 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Markus
There was another carrier visible at= my qth. This=20 carrier was visible after you switched off but it also went qrt around= 1340, the=20 frequency was 8970 kcs but not calibrated at my end so could be a litt= le out.=20 Maybe this carrier was seen by F1AFJ if it is not your transmission.= =20
I wonder if anyone else in the UK det= ected any=20 signals
Gl with your experiments.
de mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
Cc: Paul
Sent: Saturday, November 13,= 2010 10:04=20 PM
Subject: Re: VLF: TX on 6.47= and=20 8.97

Dear LF, Paul,
 
here's a short summary of today's= VLF kite=20 transmission. I'm sorry for the late notice, but the experiment= =20 had not been planned ahead, and I wasn't sure if I could= get on at=20 all. Also, the kite I am using (a 0.8 m^2 delta toy bought= =20 for 4.99 Euro) is a bit small for this sort of activity,= and really=20 requires a good and steady wind.  
 
The QTH was actually at 49.3874 N= 11.1692 E, a=20 few 100 meters from the former location reported earlier. The GPS-co= ntrolled=20 carriers were on air
 11:15 - 12:15  6470.000= Hz ~ 50 uW,=20 and
 12:30 - 13:10  8970.002= Hz ~ 200 uW=20 (EMRP).
 
Getting on 6470 was easier than exp= ected. I=20 simply used the same "seven-bucket" coil, which resonates my 240 pF= home=20 antenna to 8.97 kHz. Connected to the kite wire, the resonance was= close=20 enough to 6.5 kHz to be tuned by the ferrite plate variometer. = Then=20 the drive for the audio amp was increased until the onset= of corona=20 sizzling at 0.25 A. At that point, the amp drew 10 A DC fr= om the car=20 battery and probably delivered around 50 W. After connecting mobile= internet=20 and staring at Stefan's grabber, I was positively surprised to = find a=20 faint trace there!
 
For the frequency change, I removed= the two=20 bottom coil buckets, which brought the resonance to ~ 8.5 kHz. Then= I had to=20 carefully pull the remaining 5 buckets apart, inserting bits of= plastic=20 foam material as spacers. Going through a f= ew=20 iterations took about 10 minutes, and I got to "full power" (38= 0 mA,=20 100W) at 12:30. Unfortunately, the wind had started to calm by then,= and there=20 were several dips during this transmission. Finally at 13:10, the ki= te landed=20 gently in the grass, and I decided to close down and pack up=20 early.
 
Traces from both transmissions were= visible on=20 DK7FC's 4.5 mHz "600" windows, and the second one also produced= =20 a nice dash on the 0.45 mHz window. It is likely that these sig= nals would=20 be useful for a kite-to-kite QSO on either frequency, using 10 minut= e=20 dashes.
 
The screenshot from F1AFJ = ;has an=20 interesting dash before 13:00. The indicated frequency seems a= bit high=20 (8970.020 instead of 8970.002), which could perhaps be due to a smal= l=20 samplerate calibration error. I am also not sure about the time=20 scale  - judging by the width of the noise blobs, the sett= ing could=20 have been 11 mHz and 10 seconds per pixel. It would be nice=20 if Jean-Pierre could confirm the frequency calibration and= scroll=20 settings.
 
I also carefully inspected the OE3G= HB grabber,=20 which runs at 1.4 mHz resolution and seems to be very sensitive= . It=20 showed an unusually dark period of very low noise between 8 and= 11 UT=20 today. But no luck for my transmission there yet.
 
Well, in additio= n to the=20 technical aspects, being outdoors in the warm wind was again a = rewarding=20 and enjoyable experience.
 
Best 73, and thanks again for the interest.
 
Markus (DF6NM)

Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: VLF: TX on 6.47 and 8.97 - QRT
<= /DIV>
=
Sorry folks, I had to shut down at= 13:10 due to=20 lack of wind. Many thanks for looking!
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 

Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: VLF: TX on 6.47 and 8.97
=
Hi Stefan, thanks for the observati= on! I am=20 approximately at 49.3851 N 11.1727 E. After a bit of fiddling with= the coil,=20 the carrier is on 8970.002 since about 12:25. I will try to stay on= till=20 14:00, but there are a few lows as the wind has calmed down a=20 bit.
 
73, Markus
 

Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: VLF: TX on 6.47 and 8.97
=
There is= a trace now coming up slightly above 8970 Hz=20 in the DFCW-600 window :-)

Markus, what is your exact locator= ? http://no.nonsense.ee/qthmap/ =20 Let us see where you are currently :-)

73, Stefan

Am= 13.11.2010=20 13:16, schrieb Stefan Sch=E4fer:=20
Wow!=20 Hi Markus,

Good luck!! Yes, the wind is very strong indeed.= For my=20 kites it is almost to strong...
With your kite you should easil= y be=20 visible in the 6000er window on 8970.

OOOH! I just looked= on my 2nd=20 VLF grabber http://www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de/schaefer_v= lf/DK7FC_VLF_Grabber2.html=20 and saw your trace in DFCW-600!
Congratulations Markus!!!! Thi= s is the=20 second amateur radio station at all who reaches the far field with= in the=20 46km band :-) i estimate 8 dB S/N maybe 10. Great!!!

So DFC= W-600 on=20 8970 should be no problem later :-))

Who else of the group= is=20 monitoring? It would strongly interest how Markus is received at= other=20 locations :-)

Best 73 and wish FUN!!

Stefan/DK7FC
Am=20 13.11.2010 12:54, schrieb Markus Vester:=20
Nice wind here in Nuernberg, an= d I'm back on=20 the /p QTH with my small kite (100m wire, kite currently about= 60m up).=20 Since 11:15 I am sending a carrier on 6470.00, trying to ge= nerate a=20 small peak on DK7FC's second grabber. Max current into the= thin wire=20 is about 0.25 A. After o= ne hour at=20 12:15, I intend to switch to 8970.002 Hz, where I can radiate ab= out 0.2 mW=20 at 0.4 A.
 
Best 73,
 
Markus=20 (DF6NM)
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