Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.221]) by air-mc01.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMC011-a8454cc7460e9a; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 17:20:14 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mh09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E8510380001BA; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 17:20:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1PAquv-0007xy-LV for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 22:18:49 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1PAquv-0007xp-1b for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 22:18:49 +0100 Received: from mail-bw0-f43.google.com ([209.85.214.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PAqus-00070r-NJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 22:18:49 +0100 Received: by bwz1 with SMTP id 1so4424520bwz.16 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 14:18:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=1nQGw5PngwFAVpj2WZzZtmbTJuzoKw/y/phl0A3nR+0=; b=oflk8GTLYS1siVr1sgn4DmozqtCalWYQX1HqMAHKUNDpvYMamJiJGvwGp33lIUs8H0 5tLAUBKPjbk/Xc8CSVdcdm96ujuXCEZLtm/BnbR0URfmEnPsccwo7L+pPmEjQeYIZ5uJ JUQQACik3TxgpOXYzL0r4OQgGJ3bUcVZkHCPs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=qcD9raNkQcp1doQH8AA4XzJ3DMOQkxArGBkxJG2vM7HmGgbf9p7azn60K/JdcSHg5X WDrt3BEmOrl//qOq4dfyd+Fsrm/4b58Z8uC+G/dfmOa7DORyFRQ7CEnJN4ertfAfU51A RAp86Q7XP4ci7iDcXXveBeKF9kAsBQ6BJzvE4= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.69.132 with SMTP id z4mr5501325bki.7.1288127925352; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 14:18:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.23.10 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Oct 2010 14:18:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4CC74304.3090903@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> References: <4CC74304.3090903@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 22:18:45 +0100 Message-ID: From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: Re: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 8th VLF kite experiment Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5b0cc6a772104938ba72f X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m265.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60dd4cc7460c0698 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --001636c5b0cc6a772104938ba72f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan, The possibility of whistler duct AMATEUR propagation is fascinating. There are (I think) spectrograms of such propagation from NAA (~14kHz) back in= the 1965 book "Whistlers and Related Ionospheric Phenomena" by J.A.Hellliwell= (I have a copy). This could mean signals getting to, for example, conjugate locations in the southern hemisphere (S.Africa?) with relatively low attenuation. A chirped signal would also show whisper dispersion I guess. You will need some grabbers in distant places! 73s Roger G3XBM 2010/10/26 Stefan Sch=E4fer > Dear VLF, > > Attached you find the results of Paul Nicholson of my 8th VLF experiment= . > Interesting links and he seems to confirm that my frequency is pretty > accurate now ;-) > Furthermore the first part gives an idea of future planned VLF tests i= hope > to do on my earth antenna :-) > > 73, enjoy, > > Stefan7DK7FC > > -------- Original-Nachricht -------- Betreff: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 8th VLF > kite experiment Datum: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 20:10:58 +0000 Von: Paul > An: Stefan > Sch=E4fer CC: > Markus Vester , Wolfgang > B=FCscher , Renato Romero > > > Hi Stefan, et al > > My report of your test on Saturday is below. > > > What do you think about a test on the earth antenna, > > this week? > > We should have a good think about what tests would be > useful to do. For example, to measure the propagation > delay using a chirped transmission (this would move us > a step closer towards the goal of putting a signal > through a whistler duct). I am probably too far away > to take part in such a test. > > First transmission 2010-10-23_08:03, 3600 seconds > ------------------------------------------------- > Background @ 8970: http://abelian.org/vlf/ss101023/noise8970.png > Before sferic blanking: http://abelian.org/vlf/ss101023/tx1a.png > After sferic blanking: http://abelian.org/vlf/ss101023/tx1b.png > Average frequency: 8969.974924 Hz +/- 1uHz > > Absolute phase, measured in 5 minute blocks over 50 minutes: > -151.049 > -137.833 > -143.681 > -113.856 > -112.387 > -131.829 > -117.567 > -133.994 > -137.574 > -119.973 > Suggests the transmitter phase is switching between 2 values, > about 20 degrees apart. Spectrum shows some weak sidebands. > > Second transmission 2010-10-23_10:33, 1680 seconds > -------------------------------------------------- > Background @ 6470: http://abelian.org/vlf/ss101023/noise6470.png > Before sferic blanking: http://abelian.org/vlf/ss101023/tx2a.png > After sferic blanking: http://abelian.org/vlf/ss101023/tx2b.png > Average frequency: 6469.974916 Hz +/-1uHz > > Absolute phase, measured in 5 minute blocks over 25 minutes: > -141.539 > -153.483 > -150.903 > -155.623 > -157.098 > > Third transmission 2010-10-23_13:21, 2220 seconds > ------------------------------------------------- > Background @ 5170: http://abelian.org/vlf/ss101023/noise5170.png > Before sferic blanking: http://abelian.org/vlf/ss101023/tx3a.png > After sferic blanking: http://abelian.org/vlf/ss101023/tx3b.png > Average frequency: 5169.999969 Hz +/-1uHz > > Notes > ----- > The spike in the 8970Hz noise chart at 16:05 is the current injection > calibrator and at 16:30 the gain of the E/W loop was adjusted. Vertical > scale refers to the calibration before the gain change. > > The average frequencies are all on the low side, by between > 6ppb and 12ppb. > -- > Paul Nicholson > -- > > --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --001636c5b0cc6a772104938ba72f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan,

The possibility of whistler duct AMATEUR propagation is fas= cinating. There are (I think) spectrograms of such propagation from NAA (~= 14kHz) back in the 1965 book "Whistlers and Related Ionospheric Pheno= mena" by J.A.Hellliwell (I have a copy). This could mean signals gett= ing to, for example, conjugate locations in the southern hemisphere (S.Afr= ica?) with relatively low attenuation. A chirped signal would also show wh= isper dispersion I guess.

You will need some grabbers in distant places!

73s
Roger G3X= BM

2010/10/26 Stefan Sch=E4fer <schaefer@iu= p.uni-heidelberg.de>
Dear VLF,

Attached you find the results of Paul Nicholson of my 8th VLF experiment. Interesting links and he seems to confirm that my frequency is pretty accurate now ;-)
Furthermore the first part gives an idea of future planned VLF tests i hope to do on my earth antenna :-)

73, enjoy,

Stefan7DK7FC

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
Betreff: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 8th VLF kite experiment
Datum: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 20:10:58 +0000
Von: Paul <paul@abelian.netcom.co.uk>
An: Stefan Sch=E4fer <schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
CC: Markus Vester <markusvester@aol.com>, Wolfgang B=FCscher <dl4yhf@freenet.= de>, Renato Romero <contact@vlf.it> 


Hi Stefan, et al

My report of your test on Saturday is below.

> What do you think about a test on the earth antenna,
> this week?

We should have a good think about what tests would be
useful to do.  For example, to measure the propagation
delay using a chirped transmission (this would move us
a step closer towards the goal of putting a signal
through a whistler duct).  I am probably too far away
to take part in such a test.

First transmission 2010-10-23_08:03, 3600 seconds
-------------------------------------------------
Background @ 8970:  http://abelian.org/vlf/ss101023/noise8970.png
Before sferic blanking: http://abelian.org/vlf/ss101023/tx1a.png
After sferic blanking: http://abelian.org/vlf/ss101023/tx1b.png
Average frequency: 8969.974924 Hz +/- 1uHz

Absolute phase, measured in 5 minute blocks over 50 minutes:
 -151.049
 -137.833
 -143.681
 -113.856
 -112.387
 -131.829
 -117.567
 -133.994
 -137.574
 -119.973
Suggests the transmitter phase is switching between 2 values,
about 20 degrees apart.  Spectrum shows some weak sidebands.

Second transmission 2010-10-23_10:33, 1680 seconds
--------------------------------------------------
Background @ 6470:  http://abelian.org/vlf/ss101023/noise6470.png
Before sferic blanking: http://abelian.org/vlf/ss101023/tx2a.png
After sferic blanking: http://abelian.org/vlf/ss101023/tx2b.png
Average frequency: 6469.974916 Hz +/-1uHz

Absolute phase, measured in 5 minute blocks over 25 minutes:
 -141.539
 -153.483
 -150.903
 -155.623
 -157.098

Third transmission 2010-10-23_13:21, 2220 seconds
-------------------------------------------------
Background @ 5170:  http://abelian.org/vlf/ss101023/noise5170.png
Before sferic blanking: http://abelian.org/vlf/ss101023/tx3a.png
After sferic blanking: http://abelian.org/vlf/ss101023/tx3b.png
Average frequency: 5169.999969 Hz +/-1uHz

Notes
-----
The spike in the 8970Hz noise chart at 16:05 is the current injection
calibrator and at 16:30 the gain of the E/W loop was adjusted.  Vertical
scale refers to the calibration before the gain change.

The average frequencies are all on the low side, by between
6ppb and 12ppb.
--
Paul Nicholson
--



--
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/<= br>http://www.g3xbm.c= o.uk
http://www= .youtube.com/user/g3xbm
G3XBM=A0=A0 GQRP 1678=A0=A0=A0 ISWL G11088<= br> --001636c5b0cc6a772104938ba72f--