Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj03.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.87]) by air-db05.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDB054-86994cb5adc423c; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 09:01:56 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mj03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 6480F38000094; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 09:01:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1P60u0-0003qj-VC for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 13:57:52 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1P60u0-0003qa-Il for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 13:57:52 +0100 Received: from smtp815.mail.ird.yahoo.com ([77.238.189.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1P60tu-00043B-Rw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 13:57:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 88013 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2010 12:57:30 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=btopenworld.com; h=DKIM-Signature:Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=AnwptBvDPddFtdy3JcCV0fpEpn7YkGx/DCig7cYN8NLZd/JrAg484PzQQMbnXOxtPn/wESYWe/FoB1RT4nLG/2iSmlh8u+sVN60SWVYCJMIo6uP+cRD12o1t/OxgQ4dQ9ZhTDdmyU9sS1c/iQSyjGh36rE7ABBNH4qMnBKiBxMo= ; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btopenworld.com; s=s1024; t=1286974650; bh=glzXKIcsKUGoW7BYwUPt5P8L4LpkIS/+FvRPSBignm0=; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Message-ID:From:To:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:X-MimeOLE; b=CdVgk0AsE4bHOBtjh/qR4M6ehLAhWYPnuq3n4g5wyhJT+JGoEXieJ91Ga2fDLssFWbmJT9DyZqa1p2kciZtidwDORf2OFOJlSkIvdzBiXFP5OkMKO9rCGlQckeZ7DIXKRxXrKkSbff6Gvi/DmDSElgkazG96AR4Sds34e8tHgaM= Received: from JimPC (james.moritz@86.174.31.94 with login) by smtp815.mail.ird.yahoo.com with SMTP; 13 Oct 2010 12:57:29 +0000 GMT X-Yahoo-SMTP: Cxhli3eswBD1ozmtAojhjrja86kWx0Qm9tycD5QR1DKWrOLgjJcXkw-- X-YMail-OSG: CsDyB00VM1ldoepFt7iTIibvJQ_rSmFEfjn0XN4wMqXLKx. qZXBJsQM2LIsjLOqAXpdOEWrsbL1WRW5ngR9YjL5doFOHJu9ce2XMeoRjI_U MZ8bf8i5koiWSfK1IlGAXvN5vw62CfbVJ6keYhd.bQXGoZCU.JwKQV4y4A60 RHVwGvQu2OmmCWTGFhJFVcfZ.iqjTv6Hqyed.L.Q76xiMV1lEKj1nH8H5HpY 6SDViMyC6yiDEBpbSxOuatxBdWvp. X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <9BC685267F7D463C959F12E846B1E6F2@JimPC> From: "James Moritz" To: References: <000c01cb6abb$719bb6d0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> In-Reply-To: <000c01cb6abb$719bb6d0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 13:57:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6002.18197 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6002.18263 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: Ground proximity antennas Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m262.2 ; domain : btopenworld.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039400c89a64cb5adc25fdb X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none Dear Mal, LF Group, G3KEV wrote: ...>Antennas described on here recently on or near the ground are only variations of Beverage antennas and inefficient for Transmitting... This is missing the point. I think the interesting questions about such antennas are: -Achieving great enough antenna height to make an LF antenna that is actually "efficient" is usually impossible for amateurs. Sometimes it is possible to erect a very long, but low height antenna, so does this form of antenna have advantages in efficiency or otherwise over a short, low height antenna? What is the best way of using such antennas? -The text-book explanation of Beverage antenna operation, including that low ground conductivity is neccessary for proper operation, etc. is not very convincing to me - I don't really believe that such an antenna over a perfect ground plane would fail to radiate or receive any signals. So in what mode to such antennas actually operate? G3KEV also wrote: ...>I have never missed any DX signals by not having one. Ahh, but how would you know? You can't prove the negative... Maybe that prime DX station was calling, calling, calling, but to no avail due to your deaf antenna ;-) Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU