Return-Path: Received: from mtain-de06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-de06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.206]) by air-mb03.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMB031-a2144c552bdbf2; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 04:10:03 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-de06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3A79D380000B7; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 04:10:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OfTbe-00072o-Jm for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:09:14 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OfTbd-00072W-80 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:09:13 +0100 Received: from mail-bw0-f43.google.com ([209.85.214.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OfTbc-00054C-2g for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:09:13 +0100 Received: by bwz13 with SMTP id 13so1601911bwz.16 for ; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 01:09:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=qKyQDPi5I8v+++RzymvEg0N6/FMw00uWR117HgCgwmU=; b=TVADUy2zCcDUQSH9FGY7ErBaQijArsFsVMd7btWartru3P7Cc2zTjANSqXymoIS4bb pY9YKH9r7iWXURQYK8A/klUp/TYMHRK66is5Z+c/PPN4EACfN6Sz43IjlrYj/NbMEoU/ +nQF6MzMskQaqFa81FYkWUr2/JG68TkQKoEmc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=t651POeGdvPoGwT1/EFjWhSqfs3uG7XAFpyG2qa7TuXfIyt/kfogzf984I13WBYRwf Rr0ulnfuJeJ9CrV1nMII/kBHAUNnTzZQmaYH8jayTfacpZOaOgrGKO0KdV6W5AyU4U2F cUV5JMvhxSJeNOLp0XrdUn9aa3embAgVlscOQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.51.77 with SMTP id c13mr2886834bkg.98.1280650150649; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 01:09:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.122.148 with HTTP; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 01:09:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <009101cb30e3$90325c00$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> References: <20100731184950.JFTL3075.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> <009101cb30e3$90325c00$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 09:09:10 +0100 Message-ID: From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5b8ba4fa840048cbe9946 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m214.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40ce4c552bd90640 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --001636c5b8ba4fa840048cbe9946 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mal, Grow up and stop seeking attention like a two year old child throwing toys out of the pram. Your *positive* contributions are appreciated. Your jibes only make you sound a total idiot. 73s Roger G3XBM On 31 July 2010 20:07, mal hamilton wrote: > Some live in a make believe world of Visions, Miracles and > Impossibilities, others live in the Real world > g3kev > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* James Cowburn > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Sent:* Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:49 PM > *Subject:* RE: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment > > Hi Mal > > > > Do you have to practice at being such a funsucker or did it come > naturally?? > > > > 73s > > > > Jim G7NKS > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *mal hamilton > *Sent:* 31 July 2010 19:47 > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Subject:* Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment > > > > This is even a bigger waste of time than 9 kcs. I doubt if anyone has th= e > capability to receive on this frequency, when the majority cannot hear > anything on 137 kcs > > g3kev > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Gary - G4WGT > > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > *Sent:* Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:22 PM > > *Subject:* Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment > > > > Mal, LF, > > > > I will be watching for Stefan on 6.6kHz +/- 200Hz (not 8.97kHz as you ke= ep > stating) as you may have read in his mails. I will be using a loop & pre= -amp > as designed by Jim M0BMU. > > > > Battery is now fully charged & system ready to go. > > > > 73 > > > > Gary - G4WGT. > > > > On 31 July 2010 16:35, mal hamilton wrote: > > Stefan > Who has a RX setup that will be able to look for your signal, I seem to= be > the only one so far. There is a trace on 8.97 at present but noone else= can > see it. > There is very little response via this reflector and vy little acty at > present on 137 and 500. > de mal/g3kev > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:53 AM > Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment > > > Hello Peter, > > > > Better say 6,6 +-200 Hz. It is still not certain where the resonance > > will be, sorry. There are to many assumtions, estimations and > calculations. > > > > On 137 kHz the measured C for 100m is 580pF (measured with a RC bridge > > and by measuring the L and calculating C). But EZNEC shows a lower C. > > This could be, since a 100m vertical is not absolutely short against > > Lambda and so the sems to occur some impedance transformation which > > "looks/behaves" like a higherC. > > > > On <9 kHz the 100m wire IS short against lambda and so i loose this > > benefit. There, the actual C is present. The L of my variometer part= in > > the BIG coil is estimated to be 30 mH. Maybe it is even more and the > > overall L is higher than L(coil)+L(variometer) due to the better > > magnetic coupling. So maybe i have less C and more L than thought on > 8,97. > > > > When doubling the antenna height from 100m to 200m and assuming 5 pF/m > > the C is doubled as well. So i thought i will come out at 6,34 kHz > > (8,97/sqrt(2)). But this may just a rough estimate. EZNEC says the C > > factor is not 2 but 1,88 so i would come out some 100 Hz above. > > > > So the question is: > > What is the actual antenna C for 100m > > What is the actual (maximum and average) L > > What is the C factor when going from 100m to 200m > > > > This are many uncertainties and so i didn't want to tap the coil at 70= % > > of the winding to come back to 8,97 kHz but first just to measure out > > where the resonance will be, to solve these open Questions. Of course, > > another important and very interesting issue is propagation in the 46k= m > > band! :-) > > > > So, sorry for that coarse frequency range. Maybe the actual QRG will= be > > written here in the reflector and can be seen on my garbber2 but first > > lets hope for proper WX! > > > > 73 and tnx, Stefan/DK7FC > > > > > > > > Am 31.07.2010 11:23, schrieb pws: > > > Hi Stefan, > > > > > > Question: do you have a realistic guess of the frequency window of= your > > > transmission around 6.5kHz, e.g. +-100Hz? > > > > > > You wrote: > > > > > >> .... > > >> on *Sunday, the 1. August*, i will make a new kite experiment. > > >> ... > > >> i will transmit at arround *6,5 kHz, > > >> ... > > >> Starting time is* 8 UTC*, maybe some time later > > >> ... > > >> TX QTH is as usual in JN49IS, 49.77647N 8.699525. > > >> > > > Distance is 516km, heading 10deg. to Kiel. > > > > > > Just modified the software running at ~17mHz of resolution. Antennas > are > > > two crossed ferrite loops feeding some BC550 in parallel buffered by > > > NE5532. Both amplifiers are connected to a M-Audio Audiophile 192 > running > > > at 24 kHz on an Intel Atom 330 "shoe-box" under Linux. > > > > > > 73 from Baltic Sea, > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --001636c5b8ba4fa840048cbe9946 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mal,

Grow up and stop seeking attention like a two year old child= throwing toys out of the pram. Your positive contributions are app= reciated. Your jibes only make you sound a total idiot.

73s
Roge= r G3XBM


On 31 July 2010 20:07, mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talkt= alk.net> wrote:
Some live in a make believe world of= Visions,=20 Miracles and Impossibilities, others live in the Real world
g3kev
=A0
=A0
<= div class=3D"im">
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:49=20 PM
Subject: RE: VLF: DK7FC's 6t= h VLF kite=20 experiment

Hi=20 Mal

=A0=

Do you hav= e to=20 practice at being such a funsucker or did it come=20 naturally??

=A0=

73s=

=A0=

Jim=20 G7NKS

=A0=

=A0

This is even a bigger waste of=20 time than 9 kcs. I doubt if anyone has the capability to receive on this= =20 frequency, when the majority cannot hear anything on 137=20 kcs

g3kev

=A0

----- Original Message -----=20

Sent:<= /font>=20 Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:22 PM

Subject: Re:=20 VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment

=A0

Mal, LF,

=A0

I will be watching for Stefan on 6.6kHz +/- 20= 0Hz=20 (not 8.97kHz as you keep stating) as you may have read in his mails.= I will=20 be using a loop & pre-amp as designed by Jim=20 M0BMU.

=A0

Battery is=20 now fully charged & system ready to go.

=A0

73

=A0

Gary - G4WGT.

=A0

On 31 July 2010 16:35, mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net= >=20 wrote:

Stefan
Who has a RX setup that will be able= to=20 look for your signal, I seem to be
the only one so far. There is a= trace=20 on 8.97 at present but noone else can
see it.
There is very litt= le=20 response via this reflector and vy little acty at
present on 137 an= d=20 500.
de mal/g3kev




----- Original Message=20 -----
From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" <schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.= de>
To:=20 <= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent:=20 Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th= VLF kite=20 experiment

> Hello Pete= r,
>
>=20 Better say 6,6 +-200 Hz. It is still not certain where the resonance>=20 will be, sorry. There are to many assumtions, estimations=20 and
calculations.
>
> On 137 kHz the measured C for 100= m is=20 580pF (measured with a RC bridge
> and by measuring the L and=20 calculating C). But EZNEC shows a lower C.
> This could be, sinc= e a=20 100m vertical is not absolutely short against
> Lambda and so th= e sems=20 to occur some impedance transformation which
> "looks/behav= es" like a=20 higherC.
>
> On <9 kHz the 100m wire IS short against= lambda=20 and so i loose this
> benefit. There, the actual C is present.= The L=20 of my variometer part in
> the BIG coil is estimated to be 30 mH= .=20 Maybe it is even more and the
> overall L is higher than=20 L(coil)+L(variometer) due to the better
> magnetic coupling. So= maybe=20 i have less C and more L than thought on 8,97.
>
> When do= ubling=20 the antenna height from 100m to 200m and assuming 5 pF/m
> the= C is=20 doubled as well. So i thought i will come out at 6,34 kHz
>=20 (8,97/sqrt(2)). But this may just a rough estimate. EZNEC says the C>=20 factor is not 2 but 1,88 so i would come out some 100 Hz=20 above.
>
> So the question is:
> What is the actual= =20 antenna C for 100m
> What is the actual (maximum and average)=20 L
> What is the C factor when going from 100m to 200m
>>=20 This are many uncertainties and so i didn't want to tap the coil= at=20 70%
> of the winding to come back to 8,97 kHz but first just to= =20 measure out
> where the resonance will be, to solve these open= =20 Questions. Of course,
> another important and very interesting= issue=20 is propagation in the 46km
> band! :-)
>
> So, sorry= for=20 that coarse frequency range. Maybe the actual QRG will be
> writ= ten=20 here in the reflector and can be seen on my garbber2 but first
>= lets=20 hope for proper WX!
>
> 73 and tnx,=20 Stefan/DK7FC
>
>
>
> Am 31.07.2010 11:23, schr= ieb=20 pws:
> > Hi Stefan,
> >
> > Question: do yo= u have=20 a realistic guess of the frequency window of your
> > transmi= ssion=20 around 6.5kHz, e.g. +-100Hz?
> >
> > You wrote:
&= gt;=20 >
> >> ....
> >> on *Sunday, the 1. August*= , i=20 will make a new kite experiment.
> >> ...
> >>= i=20 will transmit at arround *6,5 kHz,
> >> ...
> >&g= t;=20 Starting time is* 8 UTC*, maybe some time later
> >> ...>=20 >> TX QTH is as usual in JN49IS, 49.77647N 8.699525.
>=20 >>
> > Distance is 516km, heading 10deg. to Kiel.
&g= t;=20 >
> > Just modified the software running at ~17mHz of=20 resolution. Antennas are
> > two crossed ferrite loops feedin= g some=20 BC550 in parallel buffered by
> > NE5532. Both amplifiers are= =20 connected to a M-Audio Audiophile 192
running
> > at 24 kH= z on=20 an Intel Atom 330 "shoe-box" under Linux.
> >
&g= t; > 73 from=20 Baltic Sea,
> > Peter
>=20 >
>

=A0

=



--
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/<= br>http://www.g3xbm.c= o.uk
http://www= .youtube.com/user/g3xbm
G3XBM=A0=A0 GQRP 1678=A0=A0=A0 ISWL G11088<= br> --001636c5b8ba4fa840048cbe9946--