Return-Path: Received: from mtain-db11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-db11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.95]) by air-dd08.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDD083-865e4c655e092ad; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:00:25 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-db11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 16B2C38000099; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:00:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Ojvj7-0002dZ-6P for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:59:21 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Ojvj6-0002dQ-Ha for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:59:20 +0100 Received: from mail-ey0-f171.google.com ([209.85.215.171]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ojvj5-0000XQ-0h for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:59:20 +0100 Received: by eyf5 with SMTP id 5so887451eyf.16 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 07:59:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=oxXr/IgmR55DeYcxCUPLcMaMKKrJl5GddLyggxuk/7o=; b=h5gpCiRRjz0mTbLrDnielSztuAn1Ff2fyrXBevZtF/v/+bxTLCLM9PLlF4L2nryzUV 0LVnlTdJmsFIZ/teFNg+nNnpv6aNLcjKWrA5VX3vbXSd8XH1w2mLi2Pw/ipPzb0mRVc2 c0aoQeXx0RFVu8eSz7HPZMpttEPNxzcxGr9xs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=alUo49VHwPf3FjpNSzc4YJxrm/lpFmox648u742bg/3d2m++rqYOe055WcuiJYjywa KVFiJph5zWoKm0xtMqphZ8RPD0/uzcyueTXwak67S4+SHhdkMCIjHWFpEaBD+CTdcEwC 0FMTrsZEtEwMEHD5/jk5SRqgoOmo36wa6ky4s= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.81.148 with SMTP id x20mr872940bkk.138.1281711557574; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 07:59:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.194.69 with HTTP; Fri, 13 Aug 2010 07:59:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1281700133.6173.100.camel@vaio3rd> References: <002801cb3a41$560b7db0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <1281660798.6173.21.camel@vaio3rd> <1281700133.6173.100.camel@vaio3rd> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:59:17 +0100 Message-ID: From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Two Earth Electrodes Antenna Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5ab7417fe7f048db5ba9b X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m258.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d405f4c655e06307c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --001636c5ab7417fe7f048db5ba9b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Rick and Rik, Thank you for help in translating the paper. 73s Roger G3XBM On 13 August 2010 12:48, Rick Wakatori <7l1rll@dp.u-netsurf.ne.jp> wrote: > Hi Roger, > I will try to translate diagrams for your understanding. > > Figure 1: Typical configuration of Two Earth Electrodes Antenna. > Earth A, Earth B and Transmitter and Receiver. > > Figure 2: Receiving characteristic using two wire length[10m and 30m] > for JJY 40kHz[one of the Standard time stations]. > where Inner 8 shape : 10m space earth electrodes. > 8 db up : 30m space earth electrodes. > Look that there is a gain direction depending on angles to the > broadcasting station - JJY 40kHz. > Dry earth is better than wet earth also described around > Fig.2. > > Figure 3: Direction pattern between 2 set of two earth electrodes. > Horizontal line shown at the center is transmit antenna. > The others are receiving antennas with 90 degree variation. > OK means good propagation and NG means No Good angle. > A same direction with transmittion antenna is good result. > > Figure 4: Simulated radiation pattern for very small dipole antenna. > Blue colour : Electric field. > Purple colour : Magnetic field. > Both electric charge field and magnetic field are generated > together in these mini dipole antenna. > Simulator : MININEC software. > > The Experimental group is JA1FCZ, JA1HOF, JA1CNM and JA5FP. > I hope this short introduction will help you. > 7L1RLL Rick > > On Fri, 2010-08-13 at 07:54 +0100, Roger Lapthorn wrote: > > Rick (the Japanese one :-) ), > > > > The diagram in the Japanese paper shows exactly my "earth antenna" > > configuration. However I cannot read Japanese. Is it possible to give > > a brief summary of the conclusions (in English)? > > > > I will try to put this into a language package to see if I can obtain > > a Google translation. > > > > 73s > > Roger G3XBM > > > > > > > > On 13 August 2010 01:53, Rick Wakatori <7l1rll@dp.u-netsurf.ne.jp> > > wrote: > > To avoid misunderstanding each, may I suggest rename "Earth > > Antenna" to > > "Two Earth Electrodes Antenna"? > > JA5FP, a friend of mine, wrote a literature on so called > > "Earth Surface > > Antenna" at bellow URL, but written in Japanese. There are > > some figures > > on direction path. > > http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~ja5fp/gant.pdf > > Notes: He has a US Callsign so that any question in English > > MAY BE > > accepted. > > 7L1RLL - Rick > > > > On Thu, 2010-08-12 at 18:44 +0100, Roger Lapthorn wrote: > > > Mal, > > > > > > Not so, but then you wouldn't want to know as you only > > transmit with > > > radio waves and mouth. > > > > > > 73s > > > Roger > > > > > > > > > > > > On 12 August 2010 18:10, mal hamilton > > wrote: > > > These so called Earth antennas are but bodged > > Beverage > > > systems, wires laying on or slightly above ground, > > staked at > > > one end as opposed to being terminated with a > > resistor or left > > > floating. Beverages or bodges are useful for > > Receiving in some > > > cases but USELESS for Transmitting. > > > An Antenna is an elevated wire raised as high as > > possible > > > above ground, an Earth is a spike driven into the > > > ground underneath your feet, basic radio theory. > > > G3KEV > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > > > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > > > http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm > > > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > > http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm > > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --001636c5ab7417fe7f048db5ba9b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rick and Rik,

Thank you for help in translating the paper.

7= 3s
Roger G3XBM

On 13 August 2010 12:4= 8, Rick Wakatori <7l1rll@dp.u-netsurf.ne.jp> wrote:
Hi Roger,
=A0I will try to translate diagrams for your understanding.

Figure 1: Typical configuration of Two Earth Electrodes Antenna.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Earth A, Earth B and Transmitter and Receiver.

Figure 2: Receiving characteristic using two wire length[10m and 30m]
=A0for JJY 40kHz[one of the Standard time stations].
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0where Inner 8 shape : 10m space earth electrodes.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A08 db up =A0 =A0 =A0 : 30m space earth elec= trodes.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Look that there is a gain direction depending on angle= s to the
broadcasting station - JJY 40kHz.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Dry earth is better than wet earth also described arou= nd
Fig.2.

Figure 3: Direction pattern between 2 set of two earth electrodes.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Horizontal line shown at the center is transmit antenn= a.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0The others are receiving antennas with 90 degree varia= tion.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0OK means good propagation and NG means No Good angle.<= br> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0A same direction with transmittion antenna is good res= ult.

Figure 4: Simulated radiation pattern for very small dipole antenna.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Blue colour =A0 : Electric field.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Purple colour : Magnetic field.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Both electric charge field and magnetic field are gene= rated
together in these mini dipole antenna.
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Simulator =A0 =A0 : MININEC software.

The Experimental group is JA1FCZ, JA1HOF, JA1CNM and JA5FP.
I hope this short introduction will help you.
7L1RLL Rick

On Fri, 2010-08-13 at 07:54 +0100, Roger Lapthorn wrote:
> Rick (the Japanese one :-) ),
>
> The diagram in the Japanese paper shows exactly my "earth antenn= a"
> configuration. However I cannot read Japanese. Is it possible to give=
> a brief summary of the conclusions (in English)?
>
> I will try to put this into a language package to see if I can obtain=
> a Google translation.
>
> 73s
> Roger G3XBM
>
>
>
> On 13 August 2010 01:53, Rick Wakatori <7l1rll@dp.u-netsurf.ne.jp>
> wrote:
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0To avoid misunderstanding each, may I suggest rena= me "Earth
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Antenna" to
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "Two Earth Electrodes Antenna"?
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0JA5FP, a friend of mine, wrote a literature on so= called
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 "Earth Surface
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Antenna" at bellow URL, but written in Japanese.= =A0There are
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 some figures
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 on direction path.
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~ja5fp/gant.pdf
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Notes: He has a US Callsign so that any question= in English
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 MAY BE
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 accepted.
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 7L1RLL - Rick
>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 On Thu, 2010-08-12 at 18:44 +0100, Roger Lapthorn wro= te:
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > Mal,
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 >
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > Not so, but then you wouldn't want to know= as you only
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 transmit with
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > radio waves and mouth.
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 >
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > 73s
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > Roger
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 >
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 >
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 >
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > On 12 August 2010 18:10, mal hamilton
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 <g3kevmal= @talktalk.net> wrote:
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 These so called Earth an= tennas are but bodged
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Beverage
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 systems, wires laying on or slig= htly above ground,
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 staked at
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 one end as opposed to being term= inated with a
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 resistor or left
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 floating. Beverages or bodges ar= e useful for
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Receiving in some
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 cases but USELESS for Transmitti= ng.
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 An Antenna is an elevated wire= raised as high as
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 possible
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 above ground, an Earth is a spik= e driven into the
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ground underneath your feet, =A0= basic radio theory.
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 G3KEV
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 >
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 >
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 >
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 >
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > --
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 > G3XBM =A0 GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://g= 3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
> http://www.g3xbm= .co.uk
> http:= //www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm
> G3XBM =A0 GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088





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http:/= /www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www= .youtube.com/user/g3xbm
G3XBM=A0=A0 GQRP 1678=A0=A0=A0 ISWL G11088<= br> --001636c5ab7417fe7f048db5ba9b--