Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.5]) by air-de05.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDE052-5eb34c55332f17e; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 04:41:19 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B0184380000AC; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 04:41:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OfU5M-0007K8-Lc for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:39:56 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OfU5L-0007Jz-Oi for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:39:55 +0100 Received: from mail-bw0-f43.google.com ([209.85.214.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OfU5K-0005Fn-2y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 09:39:55 +0100 Received: by bwz13 with SMTP id 13so1607491bwz.16 for ; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 01:39:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=2SORof2uccLysdoa2o7prT8Gk7DgKVbkZtl/nxQPIC8=; b=le5HPtkssMKGMmzBeh55AnJRIIXnJs6IqHTL2Mt2epkLDlZgb3igsonv5L81FdVVmL 6tCKehMa2H5uZVmQ9f1u1ZNFclr/eQC/RtqfSj8DwtPyO/33qPAB71h6/Ebn608ppS/9 We2JPuxlE9rnXF/i51PVqLo8ka+JS5Qn7PHKw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=Jr8t6hNkaSQnq1aNWh647T7Kw8muIoBZroFJqa2QLyo+FZSzYS+0+8qvaLqrrbm6Rd yk6HfN/tjdn06juE+2K5/WH1NSaaoxgbXLNE7XmlRXzFlnYKQWNVM44/ZxEJQ2eq5wJn N/TeDE+N1h5qzLIvfn9guJxHdSpxvHhNbQ7VA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.56.84 with SMTP id x20mr2947841bkg.68.1280651993195; Sun, 01 Aug 2010 01:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.122.148 with HTTP; Sun, 1 Aug 2010 01:39:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1264897274.1019127.1280650040009.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb079> References: <4C51FA69.1030202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4C529C6B.9070908@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4C53EB92.4000806@legal-medicine.de> <4C53F284.7070307@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <003e01cb30c5$fc7cf7d0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <672556391.1014007.1280648512218.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb079> <4C5528B4.504@freenet.de> <1264897274.1019127.1280650040009.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb079> Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2010 09:39:53 +0100 Message-ID: From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5a91622a6fc048cbf0770 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d234.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40054c55332d2369 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --001636c5a91622a6fc048cbf0770 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There is a very faint trace at 8.9702kHz on Stefan's grabber from around 0800. Is this him testing? Nothing seen on the 6.5kHz grabber yet. Good luck to all looking for the signal(s). 73s Roger G3XBM On 1 August 2010 09:07, Horst St=F6cker wrote: > Thank you Wolf, > maybe it'S too early in the morning, HI. > I tried changing the center frequency several times without changing the > frequency range and vice versa. After I changed both, it works. > Thank you - and Mal will be happy too ;-)) > Horst DO1KHS/DI2AN > > -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- > Von: "Wolfgang B=FCscher" > Gesendet: 01.08.2010 09:56:36 > An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Betreff: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment > > >Horst, > >You need to change the frequency of the "1st mixer" : > >Options.. FFT Settings ... Center Frequency [Hz] . > >This reprograms the software NCO, and thus the displayable frequency > range. > > > >Cheers, > > Wolf . > > > >Horst St=F6cker schrieb: > >> Hello all, > >> I have the same question. The 9khz_4mHz.usr can not be set to 6kHz ju= st > by changing the frequency range or the center frequency. I am sure it's= a > simple trick, but I could not find out. So I will have to use other sett= ings > - or someone has a quick hint. > >> QRM/QRN is relatively low this morning. Possibly to high, but I will > igve it a try. > >> I am receiving with my T-Antenna and a my new hombrew preamp and > soundcard. > >> Stefan, good luck - and to all the thousands of listeners, hi. > >> vy73 Horst DO1KHS/DI2AN > >> > >> > >> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- > >> Von: mal hamilton > >> Gesendet: 31.07.2010 17:35:20 > >> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> Betreff: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment > >> > >> > >>> Stefan > >>> Who has a RX setup that will be able to look for your signal, I seem= to > be > >>> the only one so far. There is a trace on 8.97 at present but noone= else > can > >>> see it. > >>> There is very little response via this reflector and vy little acty= at > >>> present on 137 and 500. > >>> de mal/g3kev > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" > >>> To: > >>> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:53 AM > >>> Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> Hello Peter, > >>>> > >>>> Better say 6,6 +-200 Hz. It is still not certain where the resonanc= e > >>>> will be, sorry. There are to many assumtions, estimations and > >>>> > >>> calculations. > >>> > >>>> On 137 kHz the measured C for 100m is 580pF (measured with a RC bri= dge > >>>> and by measuring the L and calculating C). But EZNEC shows a lower= C. > >>>> This could be, since a 100m vertical is not absolutely short agains= t > >>>> Lambda and so the sems to occur some impedance transformation which > >>>> "looks/behaves" like a higherC. > >>>> > >>>> On <9 kHz the 100m wire IS short against lambda and so i loose this > >>>> benefit. There, the actual C is present. The L of my variometer par= t > in > >>>> the BIG coil is estimated to be 30 mH. Maybe it is even more and th= e > >>>> overall L is higher than L(coil)+L(variometer) due to the better > >>>> magnetic coupling. So maybe i have less C and more L than thought= on > 8,97. > >>>> > >>>> When doubling the antenna height from 100m to 200m and assuming 5= pF/m > >>>> the C is doubled as well. So i thought i will come out at 6,34 kHz > >>>> (8,97/sqrt(2)). But this may just a rough estimate. EZNEC says the= C > >>>> factor is not 2 but 1,88 so i would come out some 100 Hz above. > >>>> > >>>> So the question is: > >>>> What is the actual antenna C for 100m > >>>> What is the actual (maximum and average) L > >>>> What is the C factor when going from 100m to 200m > >>>> > >>>> This are many uncertainties and so i didn't want to tap the coil at > 70% > >>>> of the winding to come back to 8,97 kHz but first just to measure= out > >>>> where the resonance will be, to solve these open Questions. Of cour= se, > >>>> another important and very interesting issue is propagation in the > 46km > >>>> band! :-) > >>>> > >>>> So, sorry for that coarse frequency range. Maybe the actual QRG wil= l > be > >>>> written here in the reflector and can be seen on my garbber2 but fi= rst > >>>> lets hope for proper WX! > >>>> > >>>> 73 and tnx, Stefan/DK7FC > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Am 31.07.2010 11:23, schrieb pws: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi Stefan, > >>>>> > >>>>> Question: do you have a realistic guess of the frequency window of > your > >>>>> transmission around 6.5kHz, e.g. +-100Hz? > >>>>> > >>>>> You wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> .... > >>>>>> on *Sunday, the 1. August*, i will make a new kite experiment. > >>>>>> ... > >>>>>> i will transmit at arround *6,5 kHz, > >>>>>> ... > >>>>>> Starting time is* 8 UTC*, maybe some time later > >>>>>> ... > >>>>>> TX QTH is as usual in JN49IS, 49.77647N 8.699525. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> Distance is 516km, heading 10deg. to Kiel. > >>>>> > >>>>> Just modified the software running at ~17mHz of resolution. Antenn= as > are > >>>>> two crossed ferrite loops feeding some BC550 in parallel buffered= by > >>>>> NE5532. Both amplifiers are connected to a M-Audio Audiophile 192 > >>>>> > >>> running > >>> > >>>>> at 24 kHz on an Intel Atom 330 "shoe-box" under Linux. > >>>>> > >>>>> 73 from Baltic Sea, > >>>>> Peter > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > >> ___________________________________________________________ > >> WEB.DE DSL ab 19,99 Euro/Monat. Bis zu 150,- Euro Startguthaben und > >> 50,- Euro Geldpr=E4mie inklusive! https://freundschaftswerbung.web.de > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Neu: WEB.DE De-Mail - Einfach wie E-Mail, sicher wie ein Brief! > Jetzt De-Mail-Adresse reservieren: https://produkte.web.de/go/demail02 > > --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --001636c5a91622a6fc048cbf0770 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There is a very faint trace at 8.9702kHz on Stefan's grabber from arou= nd 0800. Is this him testing? Nothing seen on the 6.5kHz grabber yet.
<= br>Good luck to all looking for the signal(s).

73s
Roger G3XBM


On 1 August 2010 09:07, Horst St=F6= cker <horst.= stoecker@web.de> wrote:
Thank you Wolf,
maybe it'S too early in the morning, HI.
I tried changing the center frequency several times without changing the= frequency range and vice versa. After I changed both, it works.
Thank you - and Mal will be happy too ;-))
Horst DO1KHS/DI2AN

-----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
Von: "Wolfgang B=FCscher" <dl4yhf@freenet.de>
Gesendet: 01.08.2010 09:56:36
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment

>Horst,
>You need to change the frequency of the "1st mixer" :
>Options.. FFT Settings ... Center Frequency [Hz] .
>This reprograms the software NCO, and thus the displayable frequency= range.
>
>Cheers,
> =A0Wolf .
>
>Horst St=F6cker schrieb:
>> Hello all,
>> I have the same question. The 9khz_4mHz.usr can not be set to 6kH= z just by changing the frequency range or the center frequency. I am sure= it's a simple trick, but I could not find out. So I will have to use= other settings - or someone has a quick hint.
>> QRM/QRN is relatively low this morning. Possibly to high, but I= will igve it a try.
>> I am receiving with my T-Antenna and a my new hombrew preamp and= soundcard.
>> Stefan, good luck - and to all the thousands of listeners, hi. >> vy73 Horst DO1KHS/DI2AN
>>
>>
>> -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: mal hamilton <g3= kevmal@talktalk.net>
>> Gesendet: 31.07.2010 17:35:20
>> An: rsgb_lf_group= @blacksheep.org
>> Betreff: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment
>>
>>
>>> Stefan
>>> Who has a RX setup that will be able to look for your signal,= I seem to be
>>> the only one so far. There is a trace on 8.97 at present but= noone else can
>>> see it.
>>> There is very little response via this reflector and vy littl= e acty at
>>> present on 137 and 500.
>>> de mal/g3kev
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer"
>>> To: <rsgb_= lf_group@blacksheep.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:53 AM
>>> Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello Peter,
>>>>
>>>> Better say 6,6 +-200 Hz. It is still not certain where th= e resonance
>>>> will be, sorry. There are to many assumtions, estimations= and
>>>>
>>> calculations.
>>>
>>>> On 137 kHz the measured C for 100m is 580pF (measured wit= h a RC bridge
>>>> and by measuring the L and calculating C). But EZNEC show= s a lower C.
>>>> This could be, since a 100m vertical is not absolutely sh= ort against
>>>> Lambda and so the sems to occur some impedance transforma= tion which
>>>> "looks/behaves" like a higherC.
>>>>
>>>> On <9 kHz the 100m wire IS short against lambda and so= i loose this
>>>> benefit. There, the actual C is present. The L of my vari= ometer part in
>>>> the BIG coil is estimated to be 30 mH. Maybe it is even= more and the
>>>> overall L is higher than L(coil)+L(variometer) due to the= better
>>>> magnetic coupling. So maybe i have less C and more L than= thought on 8,97.
>>>>
>>>> When doubling the antenna height from 100m to 200m and as= suming 5 pF/m
>>>> the C is doubled as well. So i thought i will come out at= 6,34 kHz
>>>> (8,97/sqrt(2)). But this may just a rough estimate. EZNEC= says the C
>>>> factor is not 2 but 1,88 so i would come out some 100 Hz= above.
>>>>
>>>> So the question is:
>>>> What is the actual antenna C for 100m
>>>> What is the actual (maximum and average) L
>>>> What is the C factor when going from 100m to 200m
>>>>
>>>> This are many uncertainties and so i didn't want to= tap the coil at 70%
>>>> of the winding to come back to 8,97 kHz but first just to= measure out
>>>> where the resonance will be, to solve these open Question= s. Of course,
>>>> another important and very interesting issue is propagati= on in the 46km
>>>> band! :-)
>>>>
>>>> So, sorry for that coarse frequency range. Maybe the actu= al QRG will be
>>>> written here in the reflector and can be seen on my garbb= er2 but first
>>>> lets hope for proper WX!
>>>>
>>>> 73 and tnx, Stefan/DK7FC
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 31.07.2010 11:23, schrieb pws:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Stefan,
>>>>>
>>>>> Question: do you have a realistic guess of the freque= ncy window of your
>>>>> transmission around 6.5kHz, e.g. +-100Hz?
>>>>>
>>>>> You wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> ....
>>>>>> on *Sunday, the 1. August*, i will make a new kit= e experiment.
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> i will transmit at arround *6,5 kHz,
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> Starting time is* 8 UTC*, maybe some time later >>>>>> ...
>>>>>> TX QTH is as usual in JN49IS, 49.77647N 8.699525.=
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Distance is 516km, heading 10deg. to Kiel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just modified the software running at ~17mHz of resol= ution. Antennas are
>>>>> two crossed ferrite loops feeding some BC550 in paral= lel buffered by
>>>>> NE5532. Both amplifiers are connected to a M-Audio Au= diophile 192
>>>>>
>>> running
>>>
>>>>> at 24 kHz on an Intel Atom 330 "shoe-box"= under Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> 73 from Baltic Sea,
>>>>> Peter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>> ___________________________________________________________
>> WEB.DE DSL ab 19,= 99 Euro/Monat. Bis zu 150,- Euro Startguthaben und
>> 50,- Euro Geldpr=E4mie inklusive! https://freundschaftswerbung.web.de=
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
___________________________________________________________ Neu: WEB.DE De-Mail - Einf= ach wie E-Mail, sicher wie ein Brief!
Jetzt De-Mail-Adresse reservieren: https://produkte.web.de/go/demail02




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