Return-Path: Received: from mtain-df12.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-df12.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.224]) by air-md06.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMD061-8b884c62f6b7111; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:15:04 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-df12.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 3DC7A38000154; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:15:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OjGkH-0003An-3x for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 20:13:49 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OjGkG-0003Ae-HR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 20:13:48 +0100 Received: from out1.ip08ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.244]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OjGkF-00045A-Ab for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Aug 2010 20:13:48 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAN+SYkxOk8Ja/2dsb2JhbACPQAOQa3G9F4U6BIFVimM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.55,354,1278284400"; d="scan'208,217";a="457383129" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([78.147.194.90]) by out1.ip08ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2010 20:13:40 +0100 Message-ID: <002e01cb3989$4bfb8a30$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <002001cb397a$055bd990$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 20:13:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: ERP DISTANCE ETC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01CB3991.AD92A0A0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40e04c62f6b47bf7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01CB3991.AD92A0A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The trouble is that these misleading figures get published and then so= me think that the world can be worked using uWatts on LF when in fact= it CANNOT Your figures quoted earlier then modified by others all conflict depen= ding on speculation or guesswork, everyone has a go. The outcome is us= ually as I have previously stated arrive at a figure then it could be= plus/minus by up to 10 dB which is a lot, this renders the experiment= meaningless. My argument is not a criticism of individuals and what they do but the= misleading figures and calculations produced that could misguide othe= rs. QRP merchants like to get reports from well equipped stations with pro= per elevated antennas, there is little or no chance of them hearing ea= ch other,=20 In all walks of life there is disagreement, scientist for example.=20 Building a suitable amplifier to generate 1W erp on 137 Kcs or 10W erp= on 500 Kcs would be preferable to watching TV. I am ready both RX and TX on CW for 8.97 Kcs and would immediately bui= ld a suitable rf amplifier if the band becomes available for TX in the= UK I can guarantee you will hear me if you use an elevated antenna suitab= le for purpose. G3KEV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Roger Lapthorn=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 6:44 PM Subject: Re: LF: ERP DISTANCE ETC Mal, Thanks again for the great encouragement. Would you prefer we just= watched TV instead and gave up the hobby? Here, I've no interest in running high power on any band, rather I= want to see what I can achieve with low power, simple rigs and simple= antennas. If this results in my best DX being only 20-30km then so be= it. As for your comment on earth antennas, I beg to differ. There is sti= ll a great deal to be explored and understood in this area on all band= s from sub-9kHz to at least 500kHz. 73s Roger G3XBM On 11 August 2010 18:24, mal hamilton wrote: Lots of figures appearing on here at present are guesswork and mis= leading. This has happened in the past trying to guess who was running= what power, then the conclusion was + or - 6 to 10 dB wich is nonsens= e ie could be !W or 4W or !W or 10W. For those complaining about no ro= om for large antennas, use the best elevated antenna you can get up an= d run several K/Watts to achieve the required ERP. Earth antennas have also been tested in the past are only useful= for Cave radio communications, the wheel keeps being reinvented here= on LF. G3KEV --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01CB3991.AD92A0A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The trouble is that these misleading= figures get=20 published and then some think that the world can be worked using uWatt= s on LF=20 when in fact it CANNOT
Your figures quoted earlier then modi= fied by others=20 all conflict depending on speculation or guesswork, everyone has a go.= The=20 outcome is usually as I have previously stated arrive at a figure then= it could=20 be plus/minus by up to 10 dB which is a lot, this renders the experime= nt=20 meaningless.
My argument is not a criticism of ind= ividuals and=20 what they do but the misleading figures and calculations produced= that=20 could misguide others.
QRP merchants like to get reports fro= m well=20 equipped stations with proper elevated antennas, there is little or no= chance of=20 them hearing each other,
In all walks of life there is=20 disagreement, scientist for example.
Building a suitable amplifier to=  generate=20 1W erp on 137 Kcs or 10W erp on 500 Kcs would be preferable= to=20 watching TV.
I am ready both RX and TX on CW for= 8.97 Kcs and=20 would immediately build a suitable rf amplifier if the band becomes av= ailable=20 for TX in the UK
I can guarantee you will hear me if= you use an=20 elevated antenna suitable for purpose.
 
G3KEV
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 11,= 2010 6:44=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: ERP DISTANCE= ETC

Mal,

Thanks again for the great encouragement.= Would you=20 prefer we just watched TV instead and gave up the hobby?

Here= , I've=20 no interest in running high power on any band, rather= I want to=20 see what I can achieve with low power, simple rigs and simple antenn= as. If=20 this results in my best DX being only 20-30km then so be it.

= As for=20 your comment on earth antennas, I beg to differ. There is still a great=20 deal to be explored and understood in this area on all bands fro= m sub-9kHz=20 to at least 500kHz.

73s
Roger G3XBM




On 11 August 2010 18:24, mal hamilton <g3kevm= al@talktalk.net>=20 wrote:
Lots of figures appearing on here= at present=20 are guesswork and misleading. This has happened in the past trying= to guess=20 who was running what power, then the conclusion was + or - 6 to 10= dB wich=20 is nonsense ie could be !W or 4W or !W or 10W. For those comp= laining=20 about no room for large antennas, use the best elevated antenna yo= u can get=20 up and run several K/Watts to achieve the required ERP.
Earth antennas have also been tes= ted in the=20 past are only useful for Cave radio communications, the wheel keep= s being=20 reinvented here on LF.
G3KEV
 



= --
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.= youtube.com/user/g3xbm
G3XBM   GQRP=20 1678    ISWL G11088
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