Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.13]) by air-md02.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMD024-8b7b4c548ded2a7; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:56:13 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id EA62B380000B9; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 16:56:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OfJ4o-0003VP-OJ for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 21:54:38 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OfJ4n-0003VG-VL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 21:54:37 +0100 Received: from blu0-omc1-s9.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.20]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OfJ4m-0004Qb-Tw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 21:54:37 +0100 Received: from BLU146-W24 ([65.55.116.9]) by blu0-omc1-s9.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sat, 31 Jul 2010 13:54:29 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [67.60.204.92] From: Laurence KL7UK To: Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 12:54:29 -0800 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <02BBAAF4E21A4F8B897C853FA27E033E@AGB> References: <4C51FA69.1030202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de><4C529C6B.9070908@iup.uni-heidelberg.de><4C53EB92.4000806@legal-medicine.de><4C53F284.7070307@iup.uni-heidelberg.de><003e01cb30c5$fc7cf7d0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <008501cb30e0$b1d6e810$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf>,<02BBAAF4E21A4F8B897C853FA27E033E@AGB> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jul 2010 20:54:29.0058 (UTC) FILETIME=[91720A20:01CB30F2] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_137c855f-3fdc-47fd-a266-fae2ecafb429_" Subject: RE: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d400d4c548deb4827 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_137c855f-3fdc-47fd-a266-fae2ecafb429_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Only on receive as I dont believe they have a 137 tx allocation - and at= the moment I dont think, could be wrong, that there are any active hams= on LF receive either - =20 =20 Laurence x BY3A =20 From: g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 20:07:14 +0100 Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment Not seen any sub's in the Mersey, not since the nuke launches from= camel laird ..long time a go , as for 137 , looks like all the acti= ve stations have gone to ground ........... is China on 137 ? =20 G .=20 From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:46 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment This is even a bigger waste of time than 9 kcs. I doubt if anyone has the= capability to receive on this frequency, when the majority cannot hear an= ything on 137 kcs g3kev =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gary - G4WGT=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:22 PM Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment Mal, LF,=20 I will be watching for Stefan on 6.6kHz +/- 200Hz (not 8.97kHz as you keep= stating) as you may have read in his mails. I will be using a loop & pre-= amp as designed by Jim M0BMU. Battery is now fully charged & system ready to go. 73 Gary - G4WGT. On 31 July 2010 16:35, mal hamilton wrote: Stefan Who has a RX setup that will be able to look for your signal, I seem to be the only one so far. There is a trace on 8.97 at present but noone else ca= n see it. There is very little response via this reflector and vy little acty at present on 137 and 500. de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:53 AM Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment > Hello Peter, > > Better say 6,6 +-200 Hz. It is still not certain where the resonance > will be, sorry. There are to many assumtions, estimations and calculations. > > On 137 kHz the measured C for 100m is 580pF (measured with a RC bridge > and by measuring the L and calculating C). But EZNEC shows a lower C. > This could be, since a 100m vertical is not absolutely short against > Lambda and so the sems to occur some impedance transformation which > "looks/behaves" like a higherC. > > On <9 kHz the 100m wire IS short against lambda and so i loose this > benefit. There, the actual C is present. The L of my variometer part in > the BIG coil is estimated to be 30 mH. Maybe it is even more and the > overall L is higher than L(coil)+L(variometer) due to the better > magnetic coupling. So maybe i have less C and more L than thought on 8,9= 7. > > When doubling the antenna height from 100m to 200m and assuming 5 pF/m > the C is doubled as well. So i thought i will come out at 6,34 kHz > (8,97/sqrt(2)). But this may just a rough estimate. EZNEC says the C > factor is not 2 but 1,88 so i would come out some 100 Hz above. > > So the question is: > What is the actual antenna C for 100m > What is the actual (maximum and average) L > What is the C factor when going from 100m to 200m > > This are many uncertainties and so i didn't want to tap the coil at 70% > of the winding to come back to 8,97 kHz but first just to measure out > where the resonance will be, to solve these open Questions. Of course, > another important and very interesting issue is propagation in the 46km > band! :-) > > So, sorry for that coarse frequency range. Maybe the actual QRG will be > written here in the reflector and can be seen on my garbber2 but first > lets hope for proper WX! > > 73 and tnx, Stefan/DK7FC > > > > Am 31.07.2010 11:23, schrieb pws: > > Hi Stefan, > > > > Question: do you have a realistic guess of the frequency window of you= r > > transmission around 6.5kHz, e.g. +-100Hz? > > > > You wrote: > > > >> .... > >> on *Sunday, the 1. August*, i will make a new kite experiment. > >> ... > >> i will transmit at arround *6,5 kHz, > >> ... > >> Starting time is* 8 UTC*, maybe some time later > >> ... > >> TX QTH is as usual in JN49IS, 49.77647N 8.699525. > >> > > Distance is 516km, heading 10deg. to Kiel. > > > > Just modified the software running at ~17mHz of resolution. Antennas= are > > two crossed ferrite loops feeding some BC550 in parallel buffered by > > NE5532. Both amplifiers are connected to a M-Audio Audiophile 192 running > > at 24 kHz on an Intel Atom 330 "shoe-box" under Linux. > > > > 73 from Baltic Sea, > > Peter > > > =3D --_137c855f-3fdc-47fd-a266-fae2ecafb429_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Only on receive as I dont believe they have a 137 tx allocation - and= at the moment I dont think, could be wrong, that there are any active ham= s on LF receive either -  
 
Laurence x BY3A

 
From: g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date:= Sat, 31 Jul 2010 20:07:14 +0100
Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite= experiment

Not  seen any  sub's  in= the  Mersey, not since the  nuke launches  from  came= l laird ..long time a  go  , as for  137 , looks= like all  the  active  stations  have  gone to&n= bsp; ground  ........... is China on 137 ?
 
G .

Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:46 PM
Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment
<= /DIV>

This is even a bigger waste of time than= 9 kcs. I doubt if anyone has the capability to receive on this frequency,= when the majority cannot hear anything on 137 kcs
g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:22= PM
Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF= kite experiment

Mal, LF,=20

I will be watching for Stefan on 6.6kHz +/- 200Hz (not 8.97kHz as you= keep stating) as you may have read in his mails. I will be using a loop= & pre-amp as designed by Jim M0BMU.

Battery is now fully charged & system ready to go.

73

Gary - G4WGT.


On 31 July 2010 16:35, mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net<= /A>> wrote:
Stefan
Who has a RX setup that will be able to look= for your signal, I seem to be
the only one so far. There is a trace on= 8.97 at present but noone else can
see it.
There is very little res= ponse via this reflector and vy little acty at
present on 137 and 500.<= BR>de mal/g3kev




----- Original Message -----
From:= "Stefan Sch=E4fer" <= schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Satu= rday, July 31, 2010 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite exp= eriment


> Hello Peter,
>
> Better say 6,6 +-200 Hz.= It is still not certain where the resonance
> will be, sorry. There= are to many assumtions, estimations and
calculations.
>
>= On 137 kHz the measured C for 100m is 580pF (measured with a RC bridge> and by measuring the L and calculating C). But EZNEC shows a lower= C.
> This could be, since a 100m vertical is not absolutely short= against
> Lambda and so the sems to occur some impedance transforma= tion which
> "looks/behaves" like a higherC.
>
> On <= 9 kHz the 100m wire IS short against lambda and so i loose this
> be= nefit. There, the actual C is present. The L of my variometer part in
&= gt; the BIG coil is estimated to be 30 mH. Maybe it is even more and the> overall L is higher than L(coil)+L(variometer) due to the better> magnetic coupling. So maybe i have less C and more L than thought on= 8,97.
>
> When doubling the antenna height from 100m to 200m= and assuming 5 pF/m
> the C is doubled as well. So i thought i will= come out at 6,34 kHz
> (8,97/sqrt(2)). But this may just a rough es= timate. EZNEC says the C
> factor is not 2 but 1,88 so i would come= out some 100 Hz above.
>
> So the question is:
> What= is the actual antenna C for 100m
> What is the actual (maximum and= average) L
> What is the C factor when going from 100m to 200m
&= gt;
> This are many uncertainties and so i didn't want to tap the co= il at 70%
> of the winding to come back to 8,97 kHz but first just= to measure out
> where the resonance will be, to solve these open= Questions. Of course,
> another important and very interesting issu= e is propagation in the 46km
> band! :-)
>
> So, sorry= for that coarse frequency range. Maybe the actual QRG will be
> wri= tten here in the reflector and can be seen on my garbber2 but first
>= ; lets hope for proper WX!
>
> 73 and tnx, Stefan/DK7FC
>= ;
>
>
> Am 31.07.2010 11:23, schrieb pws:
> >= Hi Stefan,
> >
> > Question: do you have a realistic gu= ess of the frequency window of your
> > transmission around 6.5kH= z, e.g. +-100Hz?
> >
> > You wrote:
> >
>= >> ....
> >> on *Sunday, the 1. August*, i will make a= new kite experiment.
> >> ...
> >> i will transmi= t at arround *6,5 kHz,
> >> ...
> >> Starting time= is* 8 UTC*, maybe some time later
> >> ...
> >>= TX QTH is as usual in JN49IS, 49.77647N 8.699525.
> >>
>= ; > Distance is 516km, heading 10deg. to Kiel.
> >
> >= ; Just modified the software running at ~17mHz of resolution. Antennas are=
> > two crossed ferrite loops feeding some BC550 in parallel buf= fered by
> > NE5532. Both amplifiers are connected to a M-Audio= Audiophile 192
running
> > at 24 kHz on an Intel Atom 330 "sh= oe-box" under Linux.
> >
> > 73 from Baltic Sea,
>= > Peter
> >
>





=3D --_137c855f-3fdc-47fd-a266-fae2ecafb429_--