Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dh02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dh02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.22]) by air-mf06.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMF063-8bef4c5471613c5; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:54:25 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dh02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 837A7380000AC; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:54:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OfHBb-0002ua-Vr for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:53:31 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OfHBb-0002uR-A6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:53:31 +0100 Received: from mail-wy0-f171.google.com ([74.125.82.171]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OfHBZ-0003hA-Gw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:53:31 +0100 Received: by wyb29 with SMTP id 29so2624960wyb.16 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 11:53:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:sender:received :in-reply-to:references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=LBGyWNZZJk5kGSxmrmbha5Do16rkq0eYhL8zZQtHDM8=; b=BbHjEaNoP2HlFlw1I3fqtHEQ/NjTFXh8Iaf/hjmJ6bIaXQ/gn0DrkRBv3Io6KgVt1r roAzfOb0WHEQUiwjh4uw5ZobnX9riBv4EMPovYszaA19xITpMOQalqMVO3E7Surq7xGx Ty1GF676Gsd/uq89QeKlXQB///XdABQkvKsTs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=iguQpuopQkGLCKZqhxbbxQAiCNTdrw3BpI0ulU2v/WviOBrEzN+Y0H4xdWrUemAT/e XD1RAPdsGmW2xre089frEcTHyxzFn3w/vxya6jdfTXmoa35DgqSUZ7b7wDtmAZAyXpAa FK+UEABfQccan0kK52Cgj6/LAeQyxrSxBtFO8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.68.145 with SMTP id v17mr3150536wbi.159.1280602403520; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 11:53:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.23.85 with HTTP; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 11:53:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <007501cb30de$a9933160$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> References: <4C51FA69.1030202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4C529C6B.9070908@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4C53EB92.4000806@legal-medicine.de> <4C53F284.7070307@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <003e01cb30c5$fc7cf7d0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <007501cb30de$a9933160$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:53:23 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: c2BFpOKs5BpcdDMzxXDNIwl0vWY Message-ID: From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e65a06ee5c406c048cb37b52 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-d250.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d41164c54715f56fe X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0016e65a06ee5c406c048cb37b52 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mal, Not watching at the moment as Stefan stated his tests would be tomorrow fr= om about 0800utc. And due to increased kite antenna length to 200 metres but using same inductance that the frequency would be lower (ie. 6.6kHz +/- 200Hz) If you look at his grabber you will see that Stefan is not Txing. http://www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de/schaefer_vlf/DK7FC_VLF_Grabber2.html Cheers, Gary - G4WGT. On 31 July 2010 19:31, mal hamilton wrote: > Gary > Can u see a trace there at present, he could be testing > mal/g3kev > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Gary - G4WGT > *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Sent:* Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:22 PM > *Subject:* Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment > > Mal, LF, > > I will be watching for Stefan on 6.6kHz +/- 200Hz (not 8.97kHz as you ke= ep > stating) as you may have read in his mails. I will be using a loop & pre= -amp > as designed by Jim M0BMU. > > Battery is now fully charged & system ready to go. > > 73 > > Gary - G4WGT. > > > On 31 July 2010 16:35, mal hamilton wrote: > >> Stefan >> Who has a RX setup that will be able to look for your signal, I seem to= be >> the only one so far. There is a trace on 8.97 at present but noone else >> can >> see it. >> There is very little response via this reflector and vy little acty at >> present on 137 and 500. >> de mal/g3kev >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:53 AM >> Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment >> >> >> > Hello Peter, >> > >> > Better say 6,6 +-200 Hz. It is still not certain where the resonance >> > will be, sorry. There are to many assumtions, estimations and >> calculations. >> > >> > On 137 kHz the measured C for 100m is 580pF (measured with a RC bridg= e >> > and by measuring the L and calculating C). But EZNEC shows a lower C. >> > This could be, since a 100m vertical is not absolutely short against >> > Lambda and so the sems to occur some impedance transformation which >> > "looks/behaves" like a higherC. >> > >> > On <9 kHz the 100m wire IS short against lambda and so i loose this >> > benefit. There, the actual C is present. The L of my variometer part= in >> > the BIG coil is estimated to be 30 mH. Maybe it is even more and the >> > overall L is higher than L(coil)+L(variometer) due to the better >> > magnetic coupling. So maybe i have less C and more L than thought on >> 8,97. >> > >> > When doubling the antenna height from 100m to 200m and assuming 5 pF/= m >> > the C is doubled as well. So i thought i will come out at 6,34 kHz >> > (8,97/sqrt(2)). But this may just a rough estimate. EZNEC says the C >> > factor is not 2 but 1,88 so i would come out some 100 Hz above. >> > >> > So the question is: >> > What is the actual antenna C for 100m >> > What is the actual (maximum and average) L >> > What is the C factor when going from 100m to 200m >> > >> > This are many uncertainties and so i didn't want to tap the coil at= 70% >> > of the winding to come back to 8,97 kHz but first just to measure out >> > where the resonance will be, to solve these open Questions. Of course= , >> > another important and very interesting issue is propagation in the 46= km >> > band! :-) >> > >> > So, sorry for that coarse frequency range. Maybe the actual QRG will= be >> > written here in the reflector and can be seen on my garbber2 but firs= t >> > lets hope for proper WX! >> > >> > 73 and tnx, Stefan/DK7FC >> > >> > >> > >> > Am 31.07.2010 11:23, schrieb pws: >> > > Hi Stefan, >> > > >> > > Question: do you have a realistic guess of the frequency window of >> your >> > > transmission around 6.5kHz, e.g. +-100Hz? >> > > >> > > You wrote: >> > > >> > >> .... >> > >> on *Sunday, the 1. August*, i will make a new kite experiment. >> > >> ... >> > >> i will transmit at arround *6,5 kHz, >> > >> ... >> > >> Starting time is* 8 UTC*, maybe some time later >> > >> ... >> > >> TX QTH is as usual in JN49IS, 49.77647N 8.699525. >> > >> >> > > Distance is 516km, heading 10deg. to Kiel. >> > > >> > > Just modified the software running at ~17mHz of resolution. Antenna= s >> are >> > > two crossed ferrite loops feeding some BC550 in parallel buffered= by >> > > NE5532. Both amplifiers are connected to a M-Audio Audiophile 192 >> running >> > > at 24 kHz on an Intel Atom 330 "shoe-box" under Linux. >> > > >> > > 73 from Baltic Sea, >> > > Peter >> > > >> > >> >> >> > --0016e65a06ee5c406c048cb37b52 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mal,

Not watching at the moment as Stefan stated his te= sts would be tomorrow from about 0800utc.

And due= to increased kite antenna length to 200 metres but using same inductance= that the frequency would be lower (ie. 6.6kHz +/- 200Hz)

If you look at his grabber you will see that Stefan is= not Txing.


Cheers,

Gary - G4WGT.






On 31 July 2010 19:31, mal hamilton &l= t;g3kevmal@talktalk.net> wrote:
Gary
Can u see a trace there at present,= he could be=20 testing
mal/g3kev
=A0
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Gary -=20 G4WGT
<= b>Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:22=20 PM
Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th= VLF kite=20 experiment

Mal, LF,

I will be watching for Stefan on 6.6kHz +/- 200Hz (not 8.97kHz as= you=20 keep stating) as you may have read in his mails. I will be using a loop= &=20 pre-amp as designed by Jim M0BMU.

Battery is now fully charged & system ready to go.

73

Gary - G4WGT.


On 31 July 2010 16:35, mal hamilton <g3= kevmal@talktalk.net>=20 wrote:
Stefan
Who=20 has a RX setup that will be able to look for your signal, I seem to=20 be
the only one so far. There is a trace on 8.97 at present but noo= ne=20 else can
see it.
There is very little response via this reflecto= r and=20 vy little acty at
present on 137 and 500.
de mal/g3kev




----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefa= n=20 Sch=E4fer" <schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
To:=20 <= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent:=20 Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th= VLF kite=20 experiment


> Hello Peter,
>
> Better say 6,6 +-200 Hz. It=20 is still not certain where the resonance
> will be, sorry. There= are=20 to many assumtions, estimations and
calculations.
>
>= On 137=20 kHz the measured C for 100m is 580pF (measured with a RC bridge
>= ; and=20 by measuring the L and calculating C). But EZNEC shows a lower C.
&= gt;=20 This could be, since a 100m vertical is not absolutely short against>=20 Lambda and so the sems to occur some impedance transformation which>=20 "looks/behaves" like a higherC.
>
> On <9 kHz= the 100m wire=20 IS short against lambda and so i loose this
> benefit. There, th= e=20 actual C is present. The L of my variometer part in
> the BIG co= il is=20 estimated to be 30 mH. Maybe it is even more and the
> overall= L is=20 higher than L(coil)+L(variometer) due to the better
> magnetic= =20 coupling. So maybe i have less C and more L than thought on=20 8,97.
>
> When doubling the antenna height from 100m to 20= 0m and=20 assuming 5 pF/m
> the C is doubled as well. So i thought i will= come=20 out at 6,34 kHz
> (8,97/sqrt(2)). But this may just a rough esti= mate.=20 EZNEC says the C
> factor is not 2 but 1,88 so i would come out= some=20 100 Hz above.
>
> So the question is:
> What is the= actual=20 antenna C for 100m
> What is the actual (maximum and average)=20 L
> What is the C factor when going from 100m to 200m
>>=20 This are many uncertainties and so i didn't want to tap the coil= at=20 70%
> of the winding to come back to 8,97 kHz but first just to= =20 measure out
> where the resonance will be, to solve these open= =20 Questions. Of course,
> another important and very interesting= issue=20 is propagation in the 46km
> band! :-)
>
> So, sorry= for=20 that coarse frequency range. Maybe the actual QRG will be
> writ= ten=20 here in the reflector and can be seen on my garbber2 but first
>= lets=20 hope for proper WX!
>
> 73 and tnx,=20 Stefan/DK7FC
>
>
>
> Am 31.07.2010 11:23, schr= ieb=20 pws:
> > Hi Stefan,
> >
> > Question: do yo= u have=20 a realistic guess of the frequency window of your
> > transmi= ssion=20 around 6.5kHz, e.g. +-100Hz?
> >
> > You wrote:
&= gt;=20 >
> >> ....
> >> on *Sunday, the 1. August*= , i=20 will make a new kite experiment.
> >> ...
> >>= i=20 will transmit at arround *6,5 kHz,
> >> ...
> >&g= t;=20 Starting time is* 8 UTC*, maybe some time later
> >> ...>=20 >> TX QTH is as usual in JN49IS, 49.77647N 8.699525.
>=20 >>
> > Distance is 516km, heading 10deg. to Kiel.
&g= t;=20 >
> > Just modified the software running at ~17mHz of=20 resolution. Antennas are
> > two crossed ferrite loops feedin= g some=20 BC550 in parallel buffered by
> > NE5532. Both amplifiers are= =20 connected to a M-Audio Audiophile 192
running
> > at 24 kH= z on=20 an Intel Atom 330 "shoe-box" under Linux.
> >
&g= t; > 73 from=20 Baltic Sea,
> > Peter
>=20 >
>



<= /div>

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