Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb10.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb10.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.30]) by air-df01.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDF011-5ee24c546a061f3; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:23:02 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb10.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 595CD3800009B; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:23:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OfGhK-0002OL-S5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:22:14 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OfGhK-0002OB-7P for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:22:14 +0100 Received: from mail-ww0-f47.google.com ([74.125.82.47]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OfGhJ-0003Lc-Dv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:22:14 +0100 Received: by wwb13 with SMTP id 13so2682266wwb.28 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 11:22:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:sender:received :in-reply-to:references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=q63lDt5rVm93WvkO4PS1UyFC25S52Ij/fLj6Wks8g10=; b=TLhFCCnthNUyWaIOy2Cd57DAZRT3OaCcL0uhlfnWYiEGogY2GXkqcSR+1KS6HQFXQl 4AfkF1vhtcbauS1IowOUp/9Dgh6BAYCRb86+F6za3LZkENuSTWN/9ZFL8+XY6r7Q7jEJ WJrpfM1xGxmJKlF+GhgCCl4JtlcOtw0h7LPy0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=dhMAdlP329I1BwDSFfvtSoFZv9heQerfMNNQIBY7X2OJ+bvQJpqvh5gYBfuoyfJsdq goZXYfb9qp/tf1Wpy/fV9ZCIhO4yQ08p9grNc7Dv1boVsIxPiNP7IHq0DFc2WpaO/qZg rerHAhJYMOYeSwb51KnN1H9X90Z4CenvfK3lE= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.86.16 with SMTP id v16mr3137319wee.11.1280600526998; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 11:22:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.23.85 with HTTP; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 11:22:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <003e01cb30c5$fc7cf7d0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> References: <4C51FA69.1030202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4C529C6B.9070908@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <4C53EB92.4000806@legal-medicine.de> <4C53F284.7070307@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <003e01cb30c5$fc7cf7d0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:22:06 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Z2RkVz9XuFc-gSLrd-0VuQVfuwI Message-ID: From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d588b982cdbe048cb30b3c X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m257.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d601e4c546a041ba9 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0016e6d588b982cdbe048cb30b3c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mal, LF, I will be watching for Stefan on 6.6kHz +/- 200Hz (not 8.97kHz as you keep stating) as you may have read in his mails. I will be using a loop & pre-a= mp as designed by Jim M0BMU. Battery is now fully charged & system ready to go. 73 Gary - G4WGT. On 31 July 2010 16:35, mal hamilton wrote: > Stefan > Who has a RX setup that will be able to look for your signal, I seem to= be > the only one so far. There is a trace on 8.97 at present but noone else= can > see it. > There is very little response via this reflector and vy little acty at > present on 137 and 500. > de mal/g3kev > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" > To: > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:53 AM > Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment > > > > Hello Peter, > > > > Better say 6,6 +-200 Hz. It is still not certain where the resonance > > will be, sorry. There are to many assumtions, estimations and > calculations. > > > > On 137 kHz the measured C for 100m is 580pF (measured with a RC bridge > > and by measuring the L and calculating C). But EZNEC shows a lower C. > > This could be, since a 100m vertical is not absolutely short against > > Lambda and so the sems to occur some impedance transformation which > > "looks/behaves" like a higherC. > > > > On <9 kHz the 100m wire IS short against lambda and so i loose this > > benefit. There, the actual C is present. The L of my variometer part= in > > the BIG coil is estimated to be 30 mH. Maybe it is even more and the > > overall L is higher than L(coil)+L(variometer) due to the better > > magnetic coupling. So maybe i have less C and more L than thought on > 8,97. > > > > When doubling the antenna height from 100m to 200m and assuming 5 pF/m > > the C is doubled as well. So i thought i will come out at 6,34 kHz > > (8,97/sqrt(2)). But this may just a rough estimate. EZNEC says the C > > factor is not 2 but 1,88 so i would come out some 100 Hz above. > > > > So the question is: > > What is the actual antenna C for 100m > > What is the actual (maximum and average) L > > What is the C factor when going from 100m to 200m > > > > This are many uncertainties and so i didn't want to tap the coil at 70= % > > of the winding to come back to 8,97 kHz but first just to measure out > > where the resonance will be, to solve these open Questions. Of course, > > another important and very interesting issue is propagation in the 46k= m > > band! :-) > > > > So, sorry for that coarse frequency range. Maybe the actual QRG will= be > > written here in the reflector and can be seen on my garbber2 but first > > lets hope for proper WX! > > > > 73 and tnx, Stefan/DK7FC > > > > > > > > Am 31.07.2010 11:23, schrieb pws: > > > Hi Stefan, > > > > > > Question: do you have a realistic guess of the frequency window of= your > > > transmission around 6.5kHz, e.g. +-100Hz? > > > > > > You wrote: > > > > > >> .... > > >> on *Sunday, the 1. August*, i will make a new kite experiment. > > >> ... > > >> i will transmit at arround *6,5 kHz, > > >> ... > > >> Starting time is* 8 UTC*, maybe some time later > > >> ... > > >> TX QTH is as usual in JN49IS, 49.77647N 8.699525. > > >> > > > Distance is 516km, heading 10deg. to Kiel. > > > > > > Just modified the software running at ~17mHz of resolution. Antennas > are > > > two crossed ferrite loops feeding some BC550 in parallel buffered by > > > NE5532. Both amplifiers are connected to a M-Audio Audiophile 192 > running > > > at 24 kHz on an Intel Atom 330 "shoe-box" under Linux. > > > > > > 73 from Baltic Sea, > > > Peter > > > > > > > > --0016e6d588b982cdbe048cb30b3c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mal, LF,

I will be watching for Stefan on 6.6kHz +/- 20= 0Hz (not 8.97kHz as you keep stating) as you may have read in his mails.= I will be using a loop & pre-amp as designed by Jim M0BMU.
=
Battery is now fully charged & system ready to go.

73

Gary - G4WGT.

<= br>
On 31 July 2010 16:35, mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.n= et> wrote:
Stefan
Who has a RX setup that will be able to look for your signal, I seem to be=
the only one so far. There is a trace on 8.97 at present but noone else ca= n
see it.
There is very little response via this reflector and vy little acty at
present on 137 and 500.
de mal/g3kev




----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" <schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blac= ksheep.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment


> Hello Peter,
>
> Better say 6,6 +-200 Hz. It is still not certain where the resonance<= br> > will be, sorry. There are to many assumtions, estimations and
calculations.
>
> On 137 kHz the measured C for 100m is 580pF (measured with a RC bridg= e
> and by measuring the L and calculating C). But EZNEC shows a lower C.=
> This could be, since a 100m vertical is not absolutely short against<= br> > Lambda and so the sems to occur some impedance transformation which > "looks/behaves" like a higherC.
>
> On <9 kHz the 100m wire IS short against lambda and so i loose thi= s
> benefit. There, the actual C is present. The L of my variometer part= in
> the BIG coil is estimated to be 30 mH. Maybe it is even more and the<= br> > overall L is higher than L(coil)+L(variometer) due to the better
> magnetic coupling. So maybe i have less C and more L than thought on= 8,97.
>
> When doubling the antenna height from 100m to 200m and assuming 5 pF/= m
> the C is doubled as well. So i thought i will come out at 6,34 kHz > (8,97/sqrt(2)). But this may just a rough estimate. EZNEC says the C<= br> > factor is not 2 but 1,88 so i would come out some 100 Hz above.
>
> So the question is:
> What is the actual antenna C for 100m
> What is the actual (maximum and average) L
> What is the C factor when going from 100m to 200m
>
> This are many uncertainties and so i didn't want to tap the coil= at 70%
> of the winding to come back to 8,97 kHz but first just to measure out=
> where the resonance will be, to solve these open Questions. Of course= ,
> another important and very interesting issue is propagation in the 46= km
> band! :-)
>
> So, sorry for that coarse frequency range. Maybe the actual QRG will= be
> written here in the reflector and can be seen on my garbber2 but firs= t
> lets hope for proper WX!
>
> 73 and tnx, Stefan/DK7FC
>
>
>
> Am 31.07.2010 11:23, schrieb pws:
> > Hi Stefan,
> >
> > Question: do you have a realistic guess of the frequency window= of your
> > transmission around 6.5kHz, e.g. +-100Hz?
> >
> > You wrote:
> >
> >> ....
> >> on *Sunday, the 1. August*, i will make a new kite experimen= t.
> >> ...
> >> i will transmit at arround *6,5 kHz,
> >> ...
> >> Starting time is* 8 UTC*, maybe some time later
> >> ...
> >> TX QTH is as usual in JN49IS, 49.77647N 8.699525.
> >>
> > Distance is 516km, heading 10deg. to Kiel.
> >
> > Just modified the software running at ~17mHz of resolution. Ante= nnas are
> > two crossed ferrite loops feeding some BC550 in parallel buffere= d by
> > NE5532. Both amplifiers are connected to a M-Audio Audiophile 19= 2
running
> > at 24 kHz on an Intel Atom 330 "shoe-box" under Linux.=
> >
> > 73 from Baltic Sea,
> > Peter
> >
>



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