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	<4C51FA69.1030202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:17:06 +0100
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=pxmqqQmySJ=LHuphU+q1ni+jMSczUSp=m8agv@mail.gmail.com>
From: Andy Talbot <andy.g4jnt@googlemail.com>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
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Subject: Re: LF: Digital modes comparison
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Try WSPR at 6Hz bandwidth  or JT4A at less that 20Hz.   They are both MSFK
constant envelope schemes.


Andy
www.g4jnt.com


2010/7/29 Stefan Sch=E4fer <schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>

> Andy, LF,
>
> Which digital mode could be most suited for a band where one has just an
> antenna bandwidth of some Hz? You know what i mean... And what could be=
 the
> "gain" compared to DFCW-600. Gain means here, how far(er) could it be
> detected, not how much more information can i transmit within the same=
 time.
>
> 73, Stefan/DK7FC
>
> PS: I see that e.g. JT65 needs abt 200 Hz, so this NOT suited!
>
>
> Am 29.07.2010 23:07, schrieb Andy Talbot:
>
> It would be very interesting to see those figures normalised to a consta=
nt
> data rate / bandwidth.  For example, PSK31 shown at -10dB is identical=
 to
> PKK63 at -7dB - well it would be, its the same modulation, just faster.=
   Ie
> plot Bits/second/Hz vs. Eb/No, then stick the Shannon limit on the graph=
 and
> see which lie nearest.
>
> The fact that JT65 is at the top is probably because it sits at around=
 0.27
> chars / second, or something like 1.2 B/s.  Although even after
> normalisation, it would no doubt still score well up.
>
>
> Andy
> www.g4jnt.com
>
>
> On 29 July 2010 21:48, John Bruce McCreath <weazle@hurontel.on.ca> wrote=
:
>
>> Hello LFers,
>>
>> I found this while web browsing....interesting reading and Mal's favour=
ite
>> mode isn't top dog.
>>
>>
>> http://kb2hsh.blogspot.com/2010/05/capabilities-of-weak-signal-digital.=
html
>>
>> I was looking for sites having info about digital modes on 1,800 kHz.=
 and
>> lower frequencies.
>>
>> 73, J.B., VE3EAR
>>
>> LowFER Beacon "EAR"
>> 188.830 kHz. QRSS30
>> EN93dr
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

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<div>Try WSPR at 6Hz bandwidth=A0 or JT4A at less that 20Hz.=A0=A0 They ar=
e both MSFK constant envelope schemes.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div><br clear=3D"all">Andy<br><a href=3D"http://www.g4jnt.com">www.g4jnt.=
com</a><br><br><br></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">2010/7/29 Stefan Sch=E4fer <span dir=3D"ltr">&l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de">schaefer@iup.uni-heide=
lberg.de</a>&gt;</span><br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff" text=3D"#000000">Andy, LF,<br><br>Which digital=
 mode could be most suited for a band where one has just an antenna bandwi=
dth of some Hz? You know what i mean... And what could be the &quot;gain&q=
uot; compared to DFCW-600. Gain means here, how far(er) could it be detect=
ed, not how much more information can i transmit within the same time.<br>
<br>73, Stefan/DK7FC<br><br>PS: I see that e.g. JT65 needs abt 200 Hz, so=
 this NOT suited!<br><br><br>Am 29.07.2010 23:07, schrieb Andy Talbot:=20
<div>
<div></div>
<div class=3D"h5">
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>It would be very interesting to see those figures normalised to a con=
stant data rate / bandwidth.=A0 For example, PSK31 shown at -10dB is ident=
ical to PKK63 at -7dB - well it would be, its the same modulation, just fa=
ster.=A0=A0 Ie plot Bits/second/Hz vs. Eb/No, then stick the Shannon limit=
 on the graph and see which lie nearest.</div>

<div>=A0</div>
<div>The fact that JT65 is at the top is probably because it sits at aroun=
d 0.27 chars / second, or something like 1.2 B/s.=A0 Although even after=
 normalisation, it would no doubt still score=A0well up.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div><br clear=3D"all">Andy<br><a href=3D"http://www.g4jnt.com/" target=3D=
"_blank">www.g4jnt.com</a><br><br><br></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 29 July 2010 21:48, John Bruce McCreath <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:weazle@hurontel.on.ca" target=3D"_blan=
k">weazle@hurontel.on.ca</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">Hello LFers,<br><=
br>I found this while web browsing....interesting reading and Mal&#39;s fa=
vourite mode isn&#39;t top dog.<br>
<br><a href=3D"http://kb2hsh.blogspot.com/2010/05/capabilities-of-weak-sig=
nal-digital.html" target=3D"_blank">http://kb2hsh.blogspot.com/2010/05/cap=
abilities-of-weak-signal-digital.html</a><br><br>I was looking for sites=
 having info about digital modes on 1,800 kHz. and lower frequencies.<br>
<br>73, J.B., VE3EAR<br><br>LowFER Beacon &quot;EAR&quot;<br>188.830 kHz.=
 QRSS30<br>EN93dr<br><br><br><br><br><br><br></blockquote></div><br></bloc=
kquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br>

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