Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.81]) by air-ma03.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMA032-b5114c5470883c7; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:50:48 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 76C1438000108; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:50:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OfH89-0002mj-Na for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:49:57 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OfH88-0002ma-Vk for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:49:56 +0100 Received: from mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.49]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OfH87-0003dL-TQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:49:56 +0100 Received: from know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net ([62.254.123.4]) by mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com (InterMail vM.7.08.04.00 201-2186-134-20080326) with ESMTP id <20100731184950.JFTL3075.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> for ; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:49:50 +0100 Received: from [109.181.81.13] (helo=radiolap) by know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OfH7w-0004yJ-UH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:49:49 +0100 From: "James Cowburn" To: Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:49:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: Acsw4Nl/beCU8tVgSXiFE3608RQp/AAACZBQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3664 In-Reply-To: <008501cb30e0$b1d6e810$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Message-Id: <20100731184950.JFTL3075.mtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@know-smtpout-4.server.virginmedia.net> X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=4QByPj+6Iq2k/6L54d+eVKTdgQxdscpRskJJReCfdXo= c=1 sm=0 a=gBLLEvLTpZ8A:10 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=FcAFIstCAAAA:8 a=nN7BH9HXAAAA:8 a=lrXfIJh8pKtjykF1PPMA:9 a=Wur1RgyzcAgsymh-5w8A:7 a=NQ-WJGiUl2ZC3q8ISDDo2pQOhTUA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=wk6s2zzMB60A:10 a=NV0LgFqsyRYA:10 a=muIvw5a9-cgA:10 a=rXycdtFqG7bhsC6i:21 a=IwStV7M4Wi6Sq0XP:21 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=6xt7grmGEytRiMQVvdEA:7 a=fvKx89g1YwtIqIYzNIDRBWj-weIA:4 a=HpAAvcLHHh0Zw7uRqdWCyQ==:117 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0054_01CB30E9.8742B440" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40514c547086777b X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01CB30E9.8742B440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mal =20 Do you have to practice at being such a funsucker or did it come natur= ally?? =20 73s =20 Jim G7NKS =20 _____ =20 From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of mal hamilton Sent: 31 July 2010 19:47 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment =20 This is even a bigger waste of time than 9 kcs. I doubt if anyone has= the capability to receive on this frequency, when the majority cannot hear anything on 137 kcs g3kev =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gary - G4WGT =20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:22 PM Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment =20 Mal, LF,=20 =20 I will be watching for Stefan on 6.6kHz +/- 200Hz (not 8.97kHz as you= keep stating) as you may have read in his mails. I will be using a loop &= pre-amp as designed by Jim M0BMU. =20 Battery is now fully charged & system ready to go. =20 73 =20 Gary - G4WGT. =20 On 31 July 2010 16:35, mal hamilton wrote: Stefan Who has a RX setup that will be able to look for your signal, I seem= to be the only one so far. There is a trace on 8.97 at present but noone els= e can see it. There is very little response via this reflector and vy little acty at present on 137 and 500. de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:53 AM Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment > Hello Peter, > > Better say 6,6 +-200 Hz. It is still not certain where the resonance > will be, sorry. There are to many assumtions, estimations and calculations. > > On 137 kHz the measured C for 100m is 580pF (measured with a RC brid= ge > and by measuring the L and calculating C). But EZNEC shows a lower= C. > This could be, since a 100m vertical is not absolutely short against > Lambda and so the sems to occur some impedance transformation which > "looks/behaves" like a higherC. > > On <9 kHz the 100m wire IS short against lambda and so i loose this > benefit. There, the actual C is present. The L of my variometer part= in > the BIG coil is estimated to be 30 mH. Maybe it is even more and the > overall L is higher than L(coil)+L(variometer) due to the better > magnetic coupling. So maybe i have less C and more L than thought on= 8,97. > > When doubling the antenna height from 100m to 200m and assuming 5 pF= /m > the C is doubled as well. So i thought i will come out at 6,34 kHz > (8,97/sqrt(2)). But this may just a rough estimate. EZNEC says the= C > factor is not 2 but 1,88 so i would come out some 100 Hz above. > > So the question is: > What is the actual antenna C for 100m > What is the actual (maximum and average) L > What is the C factor when going from 100m to 200m > > This are many uncertainties and so i didn't want to tap the coil at= 70% > of the winding to come back to 8,97 kHz but first just to measure ou= t > where the resonance will be, to solve these open Questions. Of cours= e, > another important and very interesting issue is propagation in the= 46km > band! :-) > > So, sorry for that coarse frequency range. Maybe the actual QRG will= be > written here in the reflector and can be seen on my garbber2 but fir= st > lets hope for proper WX! > > 73 and tnx, Stefan/DK7FC > > > > Am 31.07.2010 11:23, schrieb pws: > > Hi Stefan, > > > > Question: do you have a realistic guess of the frequency window of= your > > transmission around 6.5kHz, e.g. +-100Hz? > > > > You wrote: > > > >> .... > >> on *Sunday, the 1. August*, i will make a new kite experiment. > >> ... > >> i will transmit at arround *6,5 kHz, > >> ... > >> Starting time is* 8 UTC*, maybe some time later > >> ... > >> TX QTH is as usual in JN49IS, 49.77647N 8.699525. > >> > > Distance is 516km, heading 10deg. to Kiel. > > > > Just modified the software running at ~17mHz of resolution. Antenn= as are > > two crossed ferrite loops feeding some BC550 in parallel buffered= by > > NE5532. Both amplifiers are connected to a M-Audio Audiophile 192 running > > at 24 kHz on an Intel Atom 330 "shoe-box" under Linux. > > > > 73 from Baltic Sea, > > Peter > > > =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01CB30E9.8742B440 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Mal

 

Do you have to= practice at being such a funsucker or did it come naturally??

 

73s=

 

Jim G7NKS=

 

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] On Behalf Of = mal hamilton
Sent: 31 July 2010 19:4= 7
To: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC= 's 6th VLF kite experiment

 

This is even a bigger waste of time th= an 9 kcs. I doubt if anyone has the capability to receive on this frequency, when the major= ity cannot hear anything on 137 kcs

g3kev

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Gary - G4WGT

Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:22 PM

Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment

 

Mal, LF,

 

I will be watching for Stefan on 6.6kHz +/-= 200Hz (not 8.97kHz as you keep stating) as you may have read in his mails. I will be using a loo= p & pre-amp as designed by Jim M0BMU.

 

Battery= is now fully charged & system ready to go.

 

73

 

Gary - G4WGT.

 

On 31 July 2010 16:35, mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net= > wrote:

Stefan
Who has a RX setup that will be able to look for your signal, I seem= to be
the only one so far. There is a trace on 8.97 at present but noone els= e can
see it.
There is very little response via this reflector and vy little acty at=
present on 137 and 500.
de mal/g3kev





----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" <schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
To: <rsgb_lf_group@= blacksheep.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment

> Hello Pet= er,
>
> Better say 6,6 +-200 Hz. It is still not certain where the resona= nce
> will be, sorry. There are to many assumtions, estimations and
calculations.
>
> On 137 kHz the measured C for 100m is 580pF (measured with a RC= bridge
> and by measuring the L and calculating C). But EZNEC shows a lowe= r C.
> This could be, since a 100m vertical is not absolutely short agai= nst
> Lambda and so the sems to occur some impedance transformation whi= ch
> "looks/behaves" like a higherC.
>
> On <9 kHz the 100m wire IS short against lambda and so i loose= this
> benefit. There, the actual C is present. The L of my variometer= part in
> the BIG coil is estimated to be 30 mH. Maybe it is even more and= the
> overall L is higher than L(coil)+L(variometer) due to the better<= br> > magnetic coupling. So maybe i have less C and more L than thought= on 8,97.
>
> When doubling the antenna height from 100m to 200m and assuming= 5 pF/m
> the C is doubled as well. So i thought i will come out at 6,34 kH= z
> (8,97/sqrt(2)). But this may just a rough estimate. EZNEC says th= e C
> factor is not 2 but 1,88 so i would come out some 100 Hz above. >
> So the question is:
> What is the actual antenna C for 100m
> What is the actual (maximum and average) L
> What is the C factor when going from 100m to 200m
>
> This are many uncertainties and so i didn't want to tap the coil= at 70%
> of the winding to come back to 8,97 kHz but first just to measure= out
> where the resonance will be, to solve these open Questions. Of co= urse,
> another important and very interesting issue is propagation in th= e 46km
> band! :-)
>
> So, sorry for that coarse frequency range. Maybe the actual QRG= will be
> written here in the reflector and can be seen on my garbber2 but= first
> lets hope for proper WX!
>
> 73 and tnx, Stefan/DK7FC
>
>
>
> Am 31.07.2010 11:23, schrieb pws:
> > Hi Stefan,
> >
> > Question: do you have a realistic guess of the frequency win= dow of your
> > transmission around 6.5kHz, e.g. +-100Hz?
> >
> > You wrote:
> >
> >> ....
> >> on *Sunday, the 1. August*, i will make a new kite exper= iment.
> >> ...
> >> i will transmit at arround *6,5 kHz,
> >> ...
> >> Starting time is* 8 UTC*, maybe some time later
> >> ...
> >> TX QTH is as usual in JN49IS, 49.77647N 8.699525.
> >>
> > Distance is 516km, heading 10deg. to <= st1:place w:st=3D"on">Kiel.
> >
> > Just modified the software running at ~17mHz of resolution.= Antennas are
> > two crossed ferrite loops feeding some BC550 in parallel buf= fered by
> > NE5532. Both amplifiers are connected to a M-Audio Audiophil= e 192
running
> > at 24 kHz on an Intel Atom 330 "shoe-box" under Li= nux.
> >
> > 73 from Baltic Sea,
> > Peter
> >
>

 

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