Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma08.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma08.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.16]) by air-ma06.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMA061-b5284c5474fb6d; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:09:47 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma08.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AD3663800018F; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:09:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OfHQZ-00035S-3C for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 20:08:59 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OfHQY-00035G-D6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 20:08:58 +0100 Received: from out1.ip05ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.241]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OfHQW-0003qF-Q9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 20:08:58 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AngFACISVExcHYA8/2dsb2JhbACPcQOQM3G+NIU5BItP X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.55,295,1278284400"; d="scan'208,217";a="308030867" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.29.128.60]) by out1.ip05ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 2010 20:08:51 +0100 Message-ID: <009b01cb30e3$ce4292d0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <4C51FA69.1030202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de><4C529C6B.9070908@iup.uni-heidelberg.de><4C53EB92.4000806@legal-medicine.de><4C53F284.7070307@iup.uni-heidelberg.de><003e01cb30c5$fc7cf7d0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf><007501cb30de$a9933160$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 20:08:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0098_01CB30EC.2FC42570" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60104c5474f96a0f X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01CB30EC.2FC42570 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No point me testing if noone watching mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gary - G4WGT=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:53 PM Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment Mal, Not watching at the moment as Stefan stated his tests would be tomor= row from about 0800utc. And due to increased kite antenna length to 200 metres but using sam= e inductance that the frequency would be lower (ie. 6.6kHz +/- 200Hz) If you look at his grabber you will see that Stefan is not Txing. http://www.iup.uni-heidelberg.de/schaefer_vlf/DK7FC_VLF_Grabber2.htm= l Cheers, Gary - G4WGT. On 31 July 2010 19:31, mal hamilton wrote: Gary Can u see a trace there at present, he could be testing mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gary - G4WGT=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:22 PM Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment Mal, LF,=20 I will be watching for Stefan on 6.6kHz +/- 200Hz (not 8.97kHz= as you keep stating) as you may have read in his mails. I will be usi= ng a loop & pre-amp as designed by Jim M0BMU. Battery is now fully charged & system ready to go. 73 Gary - G4WGT. On 31 July 2010 16:35, mal hamilton wrot= e: Stefan Who has a RX setup that will be able to look for your signal,= I seem to be the only one so far. There is a trace on 8.97 at present but= noone else can see it. There is very little response via this reflector and vy little= acty at present on 137 and 500. de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:53 AM Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment > Hello Peter, > > Better say 6,6 +-200 Hz. It is still not certain where the= resonance > will be, sorry. There are to many assumtions, estimations an= d calculations. > > On 137 kHz the measured C for 100m is 580pF (measured with= a RC bridge > and by measuring the L and calculating C). But EZNEC shows= a lower C. > This could be, since a 100m vertical is not absolutely short= against > Lambda and so the sems to occur some impedance transformatio= n which > "looks/behaves" like a higherC. > > On <9 kHz the 100m wire IS short against lambda and so i loo= se this > benefit. There, the actual C is present. The L of my variome= ter part in > the BIG coil is estimated to be 30 mH. Maybe it is even more= and the > overall L is higher than L(coil)+L(variometer) due to the be= tter > magnetic coupling. So maybe i have less C and more L than th= ought on 8,97. > > When doubling the antenna height from 100m to 200m and assum= ing 5 pF/m > the C is doubled as well. So i thought i will come out at 6,= 34 kHz > (8,97/sqrt(2)). But this may just a rough estimate. EZNEC sa= ys the C > factor is not 2 but 1,88 so i would come out some 100 Hz abo= ve. > > So the question is: > What is the actual antenna C for 100m > What is the actual (maximum and average) L > What is the C factor when going from 100m to 200m > > This are many uncertainties and so i didn't want to tap the= coil at 70% > of the winding to come back to 8,97 kHz but first just to me= asure out > where the resonance will be, to solve these open Questions.= Of course, > another important and very interesting issue is propagation= in the 46km > band! :-) > > So, sorry for that coarse frequency range. Maybe the actual= QRG will be > written here in the reflector and can be seen on my garbber2= but first > lets hope for proper WX! > > 73 and tnx, Stefan/DK7FC > > > > Am 31.07.2010 11:23, schrieb pws: > > Hi Stefan, > > > > Question: do you have a realistic guess of the frequency= window of your > > transmission around 6.5kHz, e.g. +-100Hz? > > > > You wrote: > > > >> .... > >> on *Sunday, the 1. August*, i will make a new kite experi= ment. > >> ... > >> i will transmit at arround *6,5 kHz, > >> ... > >> Starting time is* 8 UTC*, maybe some time later > >> ... > >> TX QTH is as usual in JN49IS, 49.77647N 8.699525. > >> > > Distance is 516km, heading 10deg. to Kiel. > > > > Just modified the software running at ~17mHz of resolution= . Antennas are > > two crossed ferrite loops feeding some BC550 in parallel= buffered by > > NE5532. Both amplifiers are connected to a M-Audio Audioph= ile 192 running > > at 24 kHz on an Intel Atom 330 "shoe-box" under Linux. > > > > 73 from Baltic Sea, > > Peter > > > ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01CB30EC.2FC42570 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
No point me testing if noone watching=
mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010= 7:53=20 PM
Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th= VLF kite=20 experiment

Mal,

Not watching at the moment as Stefan stated his tests would be= tomorrow=20 from about 0800utc.

And due to increased kite antenna length to 200 metres but usin= g same=20 inductance that the frequency would be lower (ie. 6.6kHz +/- 200Hz)<= /DIV>

If you look at his grabber you will see that Stefan is not Txin= g.


Cheers,

Gary - G4WGT.






On 31 July 2010 19:31, mal hamilton <g3kevm= al@talktalk.net>=20 wrote:
Gary
Can u see a trace there at presen= t, he could be=20 testing
mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 31,= 2010 7:22=20 PM
Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's= 6th VLF=20 kite experiment

Mal, LF,=20

I will be watching for Stefan on 6.6kHz +/- 200Hz (not 8.97= kHz as you=20 keep stating) as you may have read in his mails. I will be using= a loop=20 & pre-amp as designed by Jim M0BMU.

Battery is now fully charged & system ready to go.

73

Gary - G4WGT.


On 31 July 2010 16:35, mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net> wrote:
StefanWho=20 has a RX setup that will be able to look for your signal, I se= em to=20 be
the only one so far. There is a trace on 8.97 at present= but noone=20 else can
see it.
There is very little response via this= reflector=20 and vy little acty at
present on 137 and 500.
de mal/g3k= ev




----- Original Message -----
From: "St= efan=20 Sch=E4fer" <schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent:= Saturday,=20 July 31, 2010 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF ki= te=20 experiment


> Hello Peter,
>
> Better say 6,6 +-200 Hz= . It is=20 still not certain where the resonance
> will be, sorry.= There are=20 to many assumtions, estimations and
calculations.
>> On=20 137 kHz the measured C for 100m is 580pF (measured with a RC= =20 bridge
> and by measuring the L and calculating C). But= EZNEC=20 shows a lower C.
> This could be, since a 100m vertical= is not=20 absolutely short against
> Lambda and so the sems to occ= ur some=20 impedance transformation which
> "looks/behaves" like a= =20 higherC.
>
> On <9 kHz the 100m wire IS short= against=20 lambda and so i loose this
> benefit. There, the actual= C is=20 present. The L of my variometer part in
> the BIG coil= is=20 estimated to be 30 mH. Maybe it is even more and the
>= overall L=20 is higher than L(coil)+L(variometer) due to the better
>= magnetic=20 coupling. So maybe i have less C and more L than thought on=20 8,97.
>
> When doubling the antenna height from 10= 0m to 200m=20 and assuming 5 pF/m
> the C is doubled as well. So i tho= ught i=20 will come out at 6,34 kHz
> (8,97/sqrt(2)). But this may= just a=20 rough estimate. EZNEC says the C
> factor is not 2 but= 1,88 so i=20 would come out some 100 Hz above.
>
> So the quest= ion=20 is:
> What is the actual antenna C for 100m
> What= is the=20 actual (maximum and average) L
> What is the C factor wh= en going=20 from 100m to 200m
>
> This are many uncertainties= and so i=20 didn't want to tap the coil at 70%
> of the winding to= come back=20 to 8,97 kHz but first just to measure out
> where the re= sonance=20 will be, to solve these open Questions. Of course,
> ano= ther=20 important and very interesting issue is propagation in the 46k= m
>=20 band! :-)
>
> So, sorry for that coarse frequency= range.=20 Maybe the actual QRG will be
> written here in the refle= ctor and=20 can be seen on my garbber2 but first
> lets hope for pro= per=20 WX!
>
> 73 and tnx,=20 Stefan/DK7FC
>
>
>
> Am 31.07.2010 11:= 23,=20 schrieb pws:
> > Hi Stefan,
> >
> >= Question:=20 do you have a realistic guess of the frequency window of your<= BR>>=20 > transmission around 6.5kHz, e.g. +-100Hz?
> >> >=20 You wrote:
> >
> >> ....
> >>= on=20 *Sunday, the 1. August*, i will make a new kite experiment.>=20 >> ...
> >> i will transmit at arround *6,5= =20 kHz,
> >> ...
> >> Starting time is*= 8 UTC*,=20 maybe some time later
> >> ...
> >> TX= QTH is as=20 usual in JN49IS, 49.77647N 8.699525.
> >>
>= >=20 Distance is 516km, heading 10deg. to Kiel.
> >
>= ; >=20 Just modified the software running at ~17mHz of resolution. An= tennas=20 are
> > two crossed ferrite loops feeding some BC550= in=20 parallel buffered by
> > NE5532. Both amplifiers are= connected=20 to a M-Audio Audiophile 192
running
> > at 24 kHz= on an=20 Intel Atom 330 "shoe-box" under Linux.
> >
> &g= t; 73 from=20 Baltic Sea,
> > Peter
>=20 >
>




<= /BLOCKQUOTE> ------=_NextPart_000_0098_01CB30EC.2FC42570--