Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.27]) by air-db03.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDB034-86974c546c68ec; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:33:12 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 5BFE0380000DB; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 14:33:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OfGqw-0002Zs-RH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:32:10 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OfGqw-0002Zj-7P for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:32:10 +0100 Received: from out1.ip07ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.243]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OfGqv-0003To-AM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:32:10 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AngFAHcJVExcHYA8/2dsb2JhbACPcQOQM3G+IoU5BItP X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.55,295,1278284400"; d="scan'208,217";a="455831409" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.29.128.60]) by out1.ip07ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 2010 19:32:01 +0100 Message-ID: <007501cb30de$a9933160$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <4C51FA69.1030202@iup.uni-heidelberg.de><4C529C6B.9070908@iup.uni-heidelberg.de><4C53EB92.4000806@legal-medicine.de><4C53F284.7070307@iup.uni-heidelberg.de><003e01cb30c5$fc7cf7d0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:31:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0072_01CB30E7.0B27D6D0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d601b4c546c66245c X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0072_01CB30E7.0B27D6D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gary Can u see a trace there at present, he could be testing mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gary - G4WGT=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 7:22 PM Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment Mal, LF, I will be watching for Stefan on 6.6kHz +/- 200Hz (not 8.97kHz as yo= u keep stating) as you may have read in his mails. I will be using a= loop & pre-amp as designed by Jim M0BMU. Battery is now fully charged & system ready to go. 73 Gary - G4WGT. On 31 July 2010 16:35, mal hamilton wrote: Stefan Who has a RX setup that will be able to look for your signal, I se= em to be the only one so far. There is a trace on 8.97 at present but noone= else can see it. There is very little response via this reflector and vy little act= y at present on 137 and 500. de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Sch=E4fer" To: Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:53 AM Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th VLF kite experiment > Hello Peter, > > Better say 6,6 +-200 Hz. It is still not certain where the reson= ance > will be, sorry. There are to many assumtions, estimations and calculations. > > On 137 kHz the measured C for 100m is 580pF (measured with a RC= bridge > and by measuring the L and calculating C). But EZNEC shows a low= er C. > This could be, since a 100m vertical is not absolutely short aga= inst > Lambda and so the sems to occur some impedance transformation wh= ich > "looks/behaves" like a higherC. > > On <9 kHz the 100m wire IS short against lambda and so i loose= this > benefit. There, the actual C is present. The L of my variometer= part in > the BIG coil is estimated to be 30 mH. Maybe it is even more and= the > overall L is higher than L(coil)+L(variometer) due to the better > magnetic coupling. So maybe i have less C and more L than though= t on 8,97. > > When doubling the antenna height from 100m to 200m and assuming= 5 pF/m > the C is doubled as well. So i thought i will come out at 6,34= kHz > (8,97/sqrt(2)). But this may just a rough estimate. EZNEC says= the C > factor is not 2 but 1,88 so i would come out some 100 Hz above. > > So the question is: > What is the actual antenna C for 100m > What is the actual (maximum and average) L > What is the C factor when going from 100m to 200m > > This are many uncertainties and so i didn't want to tap the coil= at 70% > of the winding to come back to 8,97 kHz but first just to measur= e out > where the resonance will be, to solve these open Questions. Of= course, > another important and very interesting issue is propagation in= the 46km > band! :-) > > So, sorry for that coarse frequency range. Maybe the actual QRG= will be > written here in the reflector and can be seen on my garbber2 but= first > lets hope for proper WX! > > 73 and tnx, Stefan/DK7FC > > > > Am 31.07.2010 11:23, schrieb pws: > > Hi Stefan, > > > > Question: do you have a realistic guess of the frequency windo= w of your > > transmission around 6.5kHz, e.g. +-100Hz? > > > > You wrote: > > > >> .... > >> on *Sunday, the 1. August*, i will make a new kite experiment= . > >> ... > >> i will transmit at arround *6,5 kHz, > >> ... > >> Starting time is* 8 UTC*, maybe some time later > >> ... > >> TX QTH is as usual in JN49IS, 49.77647N 8.699525. > >> > > Distance is 516km, heading 10deg. to Kiel. > > > > Just modified the software running at ~17mHz of resolution. An= tennas are > > two crossed ferrite loops feeding some BC550 in parallel buffe= red by > > NE5532. Both amplifiers are connected to a M-Audio Audiophile= 192 running > > at 24 kHz on an Intel Atom 330 "shoe-box" under Linux. > > > > 73 from Baltic Sea, > > Peter > > > ------=_NextPart_000_0072_01CB30E7.0B27D6D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Gary
Can u see a trace there at present,= he could be=20 testing
mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010= 7:22=20 PM
Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th= VLF kite=20 experiment

Mal, LF,

I will be watching for Stefan on 6.6kHz +/- 200Hz (not 8.97kHz= as you=20 keep stating) as you may have read in his mails. I will be using a= loop &=20 pre-amp as designed by Jim M0BMU.

Battery is now fully charged & system ready to go.

73

Gary - G4WGT.


On 31 July 2010 16:35, mal hamilton <g3kevm= al@talktalk.net>=20 wrote:
Stefan
Who=20 has a RX setup that will be able to look for your signal, I seem= to=20 be
the only one so far. There is a trace on 8.97 at present but= noone=20 else can
see it.
There is very little response via this refl= ector and=20 vy little acty at
present on 137 and 500.
de mal/g3kev




----- Original Message -----
Fr= om: "Stefan=20 Sch=E4fer" <schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>
To:=20 <rsgb_lf_= group@blacksheep.org>
Sent:=20 Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: VLF: DK7FC's 6th= VLF kite=20 experiment


> Hello Peter,
>
> Better say 6,6= +-200 Hz. It=20 is still not certain where the resonance
> will be, sorry.= There are=20 to many assumtions, estimations and
calculations.
>
&g= t; On 137=20 kHz the measured C for 100m is 580pF (measured with a RC bridge> and=20 by measuring the L and calculating C). But EZNEC shows a lower C.<= BR>>=20 This could be, since a 100m vertical is not absolutely short again= st
>=20 Lambda and so the sems to occur some impedance transformation whic= h
>=20 "looks/behaves" like a higherC.
>
> On <9 kHz the= 100m wire=20 IS short against lambda and so i loose this
> benefit. There= , the=20 actual C is present. The L of my variometer part in
> the BI= G coil is=20 estimated to be 30 mH. Maybe it is even more and the
> overa= ll L is=20 higher than L(coil)+L(variometer) due to the better
> magnet= ic=20 coupling. So maybe i have less C and more L than thought on=20 8,97.
>
> When doubling the antenna height from 100m= to 200m and=20 assuming 5 pF/m
> the C is doubled as well. So i thought i= will come=20 out at 6,34 kHz
> (8,97/sqrt(2)). But this may just a rough= estimate.=20 EZNEC says the C
> factor is not 2 but 1,88 so i would come= out some=20 100 Hz above.
>
> So the question is:
> What is= the actual=20 antenna C for 100m
> What is the actual (maximum and average= )=20 L
> What is the C factor when going from 100m to 200m
>= ;
>=20 This are many uncertainties and so i didn't want to tap the coil= at=20 70%
> of the winding to come back to 8,97 kHz but first just= to=20 measure out
> where the resonance will be, to solve these op= en=20 Questions. Of course,
> another important and very interesti= ng issue=20 is propagation in the 46km
> band! :-)
>
> So,= sorry for=20 that coarse frequency range. Maybe the actual QRG will be
>= written=20 here in the reflector and can be seen on my garbber2 but first
= > lets=20 hope for proper WX!
>
> 73 and tnx,=20 Stefan/DK7FC
>
>
>
> Am 31.07.2010 11:23,= schrieb=20 pws:
> > Hi Stefan,
> >
> > Question:= do you have=20 a realistic guess of the frequency window of your
> > tra= nsmission=20 around 6.5kHz, e.g. +-100Hz?
> >
> > You wrote:<= BR>>=20 >
> >> ....
> >> on *Sunday, the 1. Aug= ust*, i=20 will make a new kite experiment.
> >> ...
> >= > i=20 will transmit at arround *6,5 kHz,
> >> ...
> &g= t;>=20 Starting time is* 8 UTC*, maybe some time later
> >>= ...
>=20 >> TX QTH is as usual in JN49IS, 49.77647N 8.699525.
>= =20 >>
> > Distance is 516km, heading 10deg. to Kiel.>=20 >
> > Just modified the software running at ~17mHz of= =20 resolution. Antennas are
> > two crossed ferrite loops fe= eding some=20 BC550 in parallel buffered by
> > NE5532. Both amplifiers= are=20 connected to a M-Audio Audiophile 192
running
> > at= 24 kHz on=20 an Intel Atom 330 "shoe-box" under Linux.
> >
> >= ; 73 from=20 Baltic Sea,
> > Peter
>=20 >
>



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