Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.27]) by air-da07.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDA071-85e94c1fad3210a; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 14:19:30 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id AF017380000AA; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 14:19:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OQlZo-0007LL-Gm for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 19:18:32 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OQlZn-0007LC-N2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 19:18:31 +0100 Received: from blu0-omc1-s1.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.12]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OQlZm-0002cH-1c for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 19:18:31 +0100 Received: from BLU146-W27 ([65.55.116.8]) by blu0-omc1-s1.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:18:23 -0700 Message-ID: X-Originating-IP: [138.32.32.166] From: Laurence KL7UK To: Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 10:18:23 -0800 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <004801cb116c$6e98d100$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> References: <002401cb1076$f4620140$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <005b01cb109e$58400960$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <001501cb1155$38cbbe00$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> <2FE66D7AB59E43F3BDA1288BA86CC9D1@AGB>,<004801cb116c$6e98d100$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jun 2010 18:18:23.0594 (UTC) FILETIME=[22ABA4A0:01CB116E] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_00a1dafd-afab-456f-929d-224079485a51_" Subject: RE: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d601b4c1fad30234a X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_00a1dafd-afab-456f-929d-224079485a51_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually no - not in the USA on 60m its SSB only. =20 From: g3kevmal@talktalk.net To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 19:06:11 +0100 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon Not RESRVED but a recommendation, on amateur radio bands CW is permitted= throughout the band wherea data modes and ssb are NOT G3KEV =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 5:17 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon Scotch Mist . no just the fog of progress ... besides, the frequency= slot is reserved for data only ,=20 =20 So there is no possibility of qrm , unless the reference is to key cl= icks ? From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 4:20 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon So this mode is invisible, in that case I and other CW operators will not= know it is there. No evasive action required to avoid QRM to it or the re= verse.=20 Wonderful news What I saw and heard the other night was Scotch Mist g3kev =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:46 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon ''''for instance the French stn F5WK cannot hear you''''' =20 Well , yes , that's the point of it all , no noise, no trace just= 100% pure digital data rolling over the land , like the un-seen fog= of progress =20 =20 IARU - R-1 plan .. 137.4 to 137.6 digital modes , with the note that CW= is 'not allowed' =20 =20 I think the test and the frequency went fully to 'to plan' and paves= the way for a magnitudinal increase in data use on 137 , to date limi= ted by bandwidth to psk31 , ros-mf by design occupying on 50% of the= allowable space on 137 and 99% of the 100Hz allocations for 500K.= and passing via a non linear system , how long will it before the= first live data qso over the pond ? =20 G .=20 =20 =20 From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:30 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon Gary There are too many variables with these experiments for instance the Frenc= h stn F5WK cannot hear you but you are S5 solid on 137.5 here at my qth The RX stations antennas need to be analyised otherwise it misrepresents= what you are doing. Can u pse use frequencies below 136.5 kcs otherwise there is a problem wit= h EU and Russian stations using the area 137 - 137.778 kcs for QRS acty. also this is the DX window area for the USA and others. 73 de mal/g3kev =20 =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gary - G4WGT=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:31 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon Hi Mal,=20 Thank you for your report & comments. The mail you replied to gives all th= e details of equipment in use for the test beacon. I would like to be able to have a QSO using morse but I have to admit to= a complete loss of confidence as I have not used the mode for 25 years wh= ich was one year after I passed the test in 1984. Looking back, letting it= go was a silly thing to do. I do enjoy testing out these "weak signal" modes & in the report I receive= d from Michel F5WK last night he wrote that he could not hear the signal= or even see it on SpecLab but he got a complete decode. So as a weak sign= al communication mode it works. Just to elaborate on the antenna, it is a 12 metre base loaded vertical wi= th a small elevated inductor of 500uH at about 9 metres & a 1 x 3 metre ca= pacity top with a 120uH spiral inductor. In my small garden I have no spac= e to go outwards only upwards. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 20 June 2010 13:48, mal hamilton wrote: Gary If that was you last nite on 137.5 kcs you were strong enough for cw or= qrs3 no need to struggle with decodes from elswhere. also I had a qso with G3XIZ this morning on 137.0 kcs and got 599, he was= 569. Not sure what antenna u were using but it was putting out a fair signal to= this qth. Your radiators are probably acting as an antenna above earth. =20 de mal/g3kev =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gary - G4WGT=20 To: LF Group (RSGB)=20 Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 12:07 PM Subject: LF: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon Hi LF, Having successfully bench & on-air tested a x2 harmonic amplifier method= of driving my G0MRF Class D LF transmitter, I ran a beacon last night (Sa= turday 19th) on 137.500 kHz. An extract from my previous e-mail description is shown at the end. Using the equipment & method described below, the ERP from my 12 metre ver= tical antenna was around 150mW. The mode was ROS MF-1, 100 Hz bandwidth. I received the following report from Michel, F5WK in JN18HP, a distance of= 410 miles (661 kilometres) in daylight. >> Not even a faint trace on a QRSS3 spectrum but: >> RX1: 19:23 @ 5.9 Hz: 9 -37 dB >> RX1: 19:28 @ 5.4 Hz: O4WGT -34 dB >> RX1: 19:33 @ 5.4 Hz: G4WGT -31 dB The x2 harmonic low level amplifier is a simple way of driving a Class D= type of transmitter which employs a divide by 2 drive chain. My limitatio= n with multi tone drive is that my DDS VFO will only produce 2 frequencies= ie. the main frequency & a CW/Rx offset which has previously limited me= to 2 tones as with RTTY & DFCW modes. Please bear in mind that it will not be suitable for modes like PSK were= tones are transmitted simultaneously. At the moment the 2 small PCB's are precariously lying on the desk, when= I have cased them I will publish the circuit & pictures. 73 Gary - G4WGT. *********************************************** After a few days experimenting & bench testing a method of driving my G0MRF Class D Tx on the 137.000 kHz band from my linear transverter I fina= lly constructed a harmonic amplifier producing a 274.000 kHz signal from 137.0= 00 kHz input. An "on-air" trial was conducted resulting in a QSO with Graham G0NBD on 137.000 kHz using ROS data mode software. =20 My thanks to Graham for his ideas & tests. =20 The mode used was ROS MF-7. The equipment used for the QSO was as follows. Kenwood TS-440 to my LF-MF linear transverter producing the 137.000 kHz signal, followed by a tuned harmonic circuit & buffer amplifier whose output was 274.000 kHz therefore at x2 drive for the Class D Tx. The x2 signal is then divided by the Tx driver chain in the normal way to provide 137.000 kHz to the PA. =20 This method should also work well using WSPR & other similar modes. ********************************************* =20 _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with= Hotmail.=20 http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=3Dmulticalendar&ocid= =3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5=3D --_00a1dafd-afab-456f-929d-224079485a51_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Actually no - not in the USA on 60m its SSB only.

 
From: g3kevmal@talktalk.net
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date:= Mon, 21 Jun 2010 19:06:11 +0100
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS= beacon

Not RESRVED but a recommendation,&nb= sp; on amateur radio bands CW is permitted throughout the band wherea data= modes and ssb are NOT
G3KEV
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Graham
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 5:17 PM=
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz RO= S beacon

Scotch Mist  . no  just the&nbs= p; fog  of progress ... besides, the  frequency  slot = is  reserved  for  data  only  ,
 
So  there  is no  possibil= ity of qrm , unless  the  reference is to key clicks ?

Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon

So this mode is invisible, in that case= I and other CW operators will not know it is there. No evasive action req= uired to avoid QRM to it or the reverse.
Wonderful news
What I saw and heard the other night was= Scotch Mist
g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Graham
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:46 PM=
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz RO= S beacon

''''for instance the French stn F5WK = ;cannot hear you'''''
 
Well  , yes , that's the  point=   of it  all  , no  noise, no  trace just = 100% pure  digital  data rolling over the  land , like the=   un-seen  fog  of  progress 
 
IARU - R-1 plan .. 137.4 to 137.6 = digital modes , with the note that  CW is 'not allowed' 
 
I think the  test and  the = ; frequency  went fully  to  'to plan' and paves the way&nb= sp; for a magnitudinal  increase in  data  use on 137 , to= date limited by bandwidth  to  psk31 , ros-mf  by  de= sign  occupying on 50%  of the  allowable  space on&nb= sp; 137  and 99% of the  100Hz  allocations  for = 500K. and  passing via  a  non linear  system , how&n= bsp; long will  it before the  first  live  data = qso  over the  pond ?
 
G .
 
 

Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon

Gary
There are too many variables with these= experiments for instance the French stn F5WK cannot hear you but you= are S5 solid on 137.5 here at my qth
The RX stations antennas need to be analy= ised otherwise it misrepresents what you are doing.
Can u pse use frequencies below 136.5 kcs= otherwise there is a problem with EU and Russian stations using the area= 137 - 137.778 kcs for QRS acty.
also this is the DX window area for the= USA and others.
73 de mal/g3kev
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:31 PM=
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz RO= S beacon

Hi Mal,=20

Thank you for your report & comments. The mail you replied to giv= es all the details of equipment in use for the test beacon.

I would like to be able to have a QSO using morse but I have to admit= to a complete loss of confidence as I have not used the mode for 25 years= which was one year after I passed the test in 1984. Looking back, letting= it go was a silly thing to do.

I do enjoy testing out these "weak signal" modes & in the report= I received from Michel F5WK last night he wrote that he could not hear th= e signal or even see it on SpecLab but he got a complete decode. So as a= weak signal communication mode it works.

Just to elaborate on the antenna, it is a 12 metre base loaded vertic= al with a small elevated inductor of 500uH at about 9 metres & a 1 x= 3 metre capacity top with a 120uH spiral inductor. In my small garden I= have no space to go outwards only upwards.

73,

Gary - G4WGT.

On 20 June 2010 13:48, mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net<= /A>> wrote:
Gary
If that was you last nite on  137.5= kcs you were strong enough for cw or qrs3 no need to struggle with= decodes from elswhere.
also I had a qso with G3XIZ this morning= on 137.0 kcs and got 599, he was 569.
Not sure what antenna u were using b= ut it was putting out a fair signal to this qth. Your radiators are probab= ly acting as an antenna above earth.
 
de mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 12:07= PM
Subject: LF: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon=

    Hi LF,
Having successfully bench & on-air tested a x2 harmonic amplifier= method of driving my G0MRF Class D LF transmitter, I ran a beacon last ni= ght (Saturday 19th) on 137.500 kHz.

An extract from my previous e-mail description is shown at the end.

Using the equipment & method described below, the ERP from my 12= metre vertical antenna was around 150mW. The mode was ROS MF-1, 100 Hz ba= ndwidth.

I received the following report from Michel, F5WK in JN18HP, a distan= ce of 410 miles (661 kilometres) in daylight.

>> Not even a faint trace on a QRSS3 spectrum but:

>&= gt; RX1: 19:23 @ 5.9 Hz: 9 <STOP> -37 dB
>> RX1: 19:28 @ 5.= 4 Hz: O4WGT <STOP> -34 dB
>> RX1: 19:33 @ 5.4 Hz: G4WGT <= ;STOP> -31 dB

The x2 harmonic low level amplifier is a simple way of driving a Clas= s D type of transmitter which employs a divide by 2 drive chain. My limita= tion with multi tone drive is that my DDS VFO will only produce 2 frequenc= ies ie. the main frequency & a CW/Rx offset which has previously limit= ed me to 2 tones as with RTTY & DFCW modes.

Please bear in mind that it will not be suitable for modes like PSK= were tones are transmitted simultaneously.

At the moment the 2 small PCB's are precariously lying on the desk,= when I have cased them I will publish the circuit & pictures.

73

Gary - G4WGT.
    ***********************************************
    After a few days experimenting & bench testing a method of driving= my
    G0MRF Class D Tx on the 137.000 kHz band from my linear transverter= I finally
    constructed a harmonic amplifier producing a 274.000 kHz sig= nal from 137.000
    kHz input. An "on-air" trial was conducted resulting= in a QSO with
    Graham G0NBD on 137.000 kHz using ROS data mode software= .
     
    My thanks to Graham for his ideas & tests.
     The mode used was ROS MF-7. The equipment used for the QSO was as
    foll= ows. Kenwood TS-440 to my LF-MF linear transverter producing the
    137.00= 0 kHz signal, followed by a tuned harmonic circuit & buffer
    amplifi= er whose output was 274.000 kHz therefore at x2 drive for the Class
    D= Tx. The x2 signal is then divided by the Tx driver chain in the
    normal= way to provide 137.000 kHz to the PA.
     
    This method should als= o work well using WSPR & other similar modes.
    *********************************************
=




<= BR>

The New Busy think 9 to= 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. Get busy.<= /a> =3D --_00a1dafd-afab-456f-929d-224079485a51_--