Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.7]) by air-mf09.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMF094-8bfc4c0b7ea03aa; Sun, 06 Jun 2010 06:55:28 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 4C43D38000099; Sun, 6 Jun 2010 06:55:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OLDUa-0001UC-Ov for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jun 2010 11:54:12 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OLDUa-0001U3-2G for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jun 2010 11:54:12 +0100 Received: from cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OLDUY-0002vF-Ay for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jun 2010 11:54:12 +0100 Received: from smtps01.kuleuven.be (smtpshost01.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.74]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 577987B802A for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2010 12:53:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB-N3.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub-n3.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.13]) by smtps01.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 433A531E703 for ; Sun, 6 Jun 2010 12:53:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ICTS-S-EXC2-CA.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.11.13]) by ICTS-S-HUB-N3.luna.kuleuven.be ([10.112.9.13]) with mapi; Sun, 6 Jun 2010 12:53:59 +0200 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 12:53:59 +0200 Thread-Topic: Success with my new Ground Antenna on Dreamer's Band Thread-Index: AcsEzLrgw77wONWkTUyzUI9tpABVnAAhxjKb Message-ID: References: <657E7065AC4C454AB63F6C7C2FF043F6@Black> , <003101cb04c2$0913cc10$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf>,<1607287044.1492139.1275754813942.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb034> In-Reply-To: <1607287044.1492139.1275754813942.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb034> Accept-Language: nl-NL, nl-BE Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, nl-BE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: LF: RE: Success with my new Ground Antenna on Dreamer's Band Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C5107CB1257ICTSSEXC2CAlu_" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40074c0b7e9e19c3 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C5107CB1257ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Horst, keep up the good work and ingore the negative vibes. After all even Marconi was happy to reach the end of his back yard during= his first experiments. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens Horst St=F6cker [horst.stoecker@web.de] Verzonden: zaterdag 5 juni 2010 18:20 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: VLF: Success with my new Ground Antenna on Dreamer's Band Hello, the 800m Ground Antenna Test is still a future project - transmissions pla= nned on 23. to 25. July from the Erpeler Ley near Bonn. But today I did the second Ground Antenna Test at my home QTH. Two copper= rods of about 50cm were directed and splitted in the middle of a 100m lin= e. 10m of RG58 connect this point with the equipment in my garage: torroid= stepup transformer, 300 W car amplifier and my new communication test sys= tem as sweep oscillator betwen 8,7 an 8,9 kHz. After my disappointing first test with the 30m base I di not expect too ma= uch. But the signal was audible in a range of 600m depending on the enviro= nment. Horst DO1KHS/DI2AN ________________________________ Von: mal hamilton Gesendet: 05.06.2010 17:16:12 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: VLF: Two-Way QSO on Dreamer's Band Gary What sort of strength are u receiving the Alpha signals This might give u an idea how strong amateur signals are likely to be by= comparison There is not much information available from UK stations about their recei= ving capability de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:20 PM Subject: Re: VLF: Two-Way QSO on Dreamer's Band Marcus, Walter, LF, Well done for your VLF 8.97 Hz 2 - way communication. Keep up the good work. Monitoring most of the time here but nothing seen as yet, one day I may se= e something. 73 Gary - G4WGT - North West England - IO83QO On 4 June 2010 21:59, Markus Vester > wrote: Dear LF, this morning, June 4th between 6 and 8 UT, Walter (DJ2LF) and myself (DF6N= M) were able to successfully conduct a two-way contact (aka "QSO") on 8.97= kHz. The distance between us is 20.2 km, well outside the reactive near= field zone (lamda / 2pi =3D 5.3 km). Both of us were using our small backyard Marconi antennas at home, for tra= nsmit and receive. Walter's antenna has 260 pF at an estimated effective= height of about 5 m. He achieved about 370 mA current, resulting in a rad= iated power of about 5 uW (EMRP). I also got 5 uW from 270 mA into 240 pF= at about 7 m. I resonated the antenna using the same little "yoghurt coil= " described a while ago, having 1.3 henry from 9 x 480 turns of 0.2 mm mag= net wire, and a room-temperature DC resistance of 820 ohms. Walter used a= scaled up version of this coil, about 25 cm diameter and 60 cm long, cons= isting of seven polypropylene household buckets inserted into one another.= Each bucket has 460 turns of 0.4 mm wire on it, about 320 ohms total DC= resistance. Each of us applied approximately 100 W of "RF" power from a= car-HiFi amplifier. Reception was done by soundcard, without preamplification. We set Spectrum= Lab to 0.95 mHz FFT bandwidth, with noise blanking on, and samplerate tra= cking based on the German 23.4 kHz MSK signal. We chose to transmit 30 min= ute dashes, separated by 15 minute quiet intervals to allow for FFT proces= sing delay. We employed a special "micro-QSO" format, which was designed to exchange= the minimum single-bit report and confirmation in only three turnovers,= each containing a single dash. Station identification was by frequency al= one, with preassigned pairs (8969.92 / 8970.02 Hz for DJ2LF, 8970.0 / 8970= .1 Hz for DF6NM). Generally the lower frequency was assigned to a negative= response (ie. "not confirmed"), whereas the upper one is positive ("recei= ved ok"). DF6NM started by transmitting a carrier on his lower frequency, from 4:00= to 4:30 UT. This was indeed seen by DJ2LF, who replied on his upper frequ= ency from 4:45 to 5:15, reporting positive reception. Then DF6NM confirmed= reception on the upper frequency from 5:30 to 6:00. The whole procedure= took two hours. Attached are screenshots from both sides. Unfortunately the QRN level this= morning was much worse than we had hoped for, with active thunderstorms= in South Italy, Poland and Belorussia. To my surprise, our dashes still= made it through and were unambiguously visible, with an estimated SNR of= 6 to 8 dB. Walter's signal can actually still be seen between my own dash= es on my VLF grabber http://www.mydarc.de/df6nm/vlf/vlfgrabber.htm . As far as we know, this was probably the first two-way amateur QSO on VLF,= using truely radiated fields. Another dream came true... Best regards, Markus (DF6NM) NEU: WEB.DE DSL f=FCr 19,99 EUR/mtl. und ohne Mindest-Laufzeit! http://produkte.web.de/go/02/ --_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C5107CB1257ICTSSEXC2CAlu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Horst,
 
keep up the good work and ingore the= negative vibes.
After all even Marconi was happy to= reach the end of his back yard during his first experiments.
 
73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T
 
Van: owner-rsgb_= lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Horst= St=F6cker [horst.stoecker@web.de]
Verzonden: zaterdag 5 juni 2010 18:20
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: VLF: Success with my new Ground Antenna on Dreamer's Ban= d

Hello,
the 800m Ground Antenna Test is still a future project - transmissions pla= nned on 23. to 25. July from the Erpeler Ley near Bonn.
But today I did the second Ground Antenna Test at my home QTH. Two copper= rods of about 50cm were directed and splitted in the middle of a 100m lin= e. 10m of RG58 connect this point with the equipment in my garage: torroid= stepup transformer, 300 W car amplifier and my new communication test system as sweep oscillator betwen 8,7 an 8,= 9 kHz.
After my disappointing first test with the 30m base I di not expect too ma= uch. But the signal was audible in a range of 600m depending on the enviro= nment.
Horst DO1KHS/DI2AN
Von: mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net>
Gesendet: 05.06.2010 17:16:12
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: Re: VLF: Two-Way QSO on Dreamer's Band

Gary
What sort of= strength are u receiving the Alpha signals
This might giv= e u an idea how strong amateur signals are likely to be by comparison
There is not= much information available from UK stations about their receiving capabil= ity
de mal/g3kev
 
 <= /div>
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:20= PM
Subject: Re: VLF: Two-Way QSO on Dr= eamer's Band
Marcus, Walter, LF,
Well done for your VLF 8.97 Hz 2 - way communication.
Keep up the good work.
Monitoring most of the time here but nothing seen as yet, one day I= may see something.
73
Gary - G4WGT - North West England - IO83QO

On 4 June 2010 21:59, Markus Vester <<= a href=3D"mailto:markusvester@aol.com">markusvester@aol.com>= wrote:
Dear LF,
 <= /div>
this morning,= June 4th between 6 and 8 UT, Walter (DJ2LF) and myself (DF6NM) were able= to successfully conduct a two-way contact (aka "QSO") on 8.97= kHz. The distance between us is 20.2 km, well outside the reactive near field zone (lamda / 2pi =3D 5.3 km).
 <= /div>
Both of us wer= e using our small backyard Marconi antennas at home, for transmit and rece= ive. Walter's antenna has 260 pF at an estimated effective height of about= 5 m. He achieved about 370 mA current, resulting in a radiated power of about 5 uW (EMRP). I also got 5 uW from= 270 mA into 240 pF at about 7 m. I resonated the antenna using the same= little "yoghurt coil" described a while ago, having 1.3 henry= from 9 x 480 turns of 0.2 mm magnet wire, and a room-temperature DC resistance of 820 ohms. Walter used a scaled up version of this coil,= about 25 cm diameter and 60 cm long, consisting of seven polypropylene ho= usehold buckets inserted into one another. Each bucket has 460 turns of 0.= 4 mm wire on it, about 320 ohms total DC resistance. Each of us applied approximately 100 W of "RF"= power from a car-HiFi amplifier.
 <= /div>
Reception was= done by soundcard, without preamplification. We set Spectrum Lab to 0.95= mHz FFT bandwidth, with noise blanking on, and samplerate tracking based= on the German 23.4 kHz MSK signal. We chose to transmit 30 minute dashes, separated by 15 minute quiet intervals to= allow for FFT processing delay.
 <= /div>
We employed a= special "micro-QSO" format, which was designed to exchange the= minimum single-bit report and confirmation in only three turnovers, each= containing a single dash. Station identification was by frequency alone, with preassigned pairs (8969.92 / 8970.02 Hz for= DJ2LF, 8970.0 / 8970.1 Hz for DF6NM). Generally the lower frequency was= assigned to a negative response (ie. "not confirmed"), whereas= the upper one is positive ("received ok").
 <= /div>
DF6NM started= by transmitting a carrier on his lower frequency, from 4:00 to 4:30 UT.= This was indeed seen by DJ2LF, who replied on his upper frequency from 4:= 45 to 5:15, reporting positive reception. Then DF6NM confirmed reception on the upper frequency from 5:30 to 6:00.= The whole procedure took two hours.
 <= /div>
Attached are= screenshots from both sides. Unfortunately the QRN level this morning was= much worse than we had hoped for, with active thunderstorms in South Ital= y, Poland and Belorussia. To my surprise, our dashes still made it through and were unambiguously visible, with an= estimated SNR of 6 to 8 dB. Walter's signal can actually still be se= en between my own dashes on my VLF grabber http://www.mydarc.de/df6nm/vlf/vlfgrabber.htm .
 <= /div>
As far as we= know, this was probably the first two-way amateur QSO on VLF, using truel= y radiated fields. Another dream came true...
 <= /div>
Best regards,<= br> Markus (DF6NM)
  

3D""
NEU= : WEB.DE DSL f=FCr 19,99 EUR/mtl. und ohne Mindest-Laufzeit!  &n= bsp;
http://produkte.web.de/go/02/
--_000_BF4A524700075746A6467658DFC7102C5107CB1257ICTSSEXC2CAlu_--