Return-Path: Received: from mtain-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.10]) by air-md02.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMD024-8b7b4c1e705a13e; Sun, 20 Jun 2010 15:47:38 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-ma02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A4EDC380000AF; Sun, 20 Jun 2010 15:47:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OQQTA-0003Oz-0F for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jun 2010 20:46:16 +0100 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OQQT4-0003Kw-7Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jun 2010 20:46:10 +0100 Received: from smtp5.freeserve.com ([193.252.22.151] helo=smtp6.freeserve.com) by relay3.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OQQT1-0006v7-Uw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jun 2010 20:46:10 +0100 Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3506.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id C386B70039AF for ; Sun, 20 Jun 2010 21:46:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from me-wanadoo.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mwinf3506.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id B6A6870039CF for ; Sun, 20 Jun 2010 21:46:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from AGB (unknown [91.109.21.153]) by mwinf3506.me.freeserve.com (SMTP Server) with SMTP id 35F9F70039AF for ; Sun, 20 Jun 2010 21:46:01 +0200 (CEST) X-ME-UUID: 20100620194601221.35F9F70039AF@mwinf3506.me.freeserve.com Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: References: <002401cb1076$f4620140$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <005b01cb109e$58400960$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> In-Reply-To: <005b01cb109e$58400960$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 20:46:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 100620-1, 20/06/2010), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F8_01CB10B9.97985C50" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d600a4c1e70562adc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_00F8_01CB10B9.97985C50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ''''for instance the French stn F5WK cannot hear you''''' Well , yes , that's the point of it all , no noise, no trace ju= st 100% pure digital data rolling over the land , like the un-see= n fog of progress =20 IARU - R-1 plan .. 137.4 to 137.6 digital modes , with the note that= CW is 'not allowed' =20 I think the test and the frequency went fully to 'to plan' and= paves the way for a magnitudinal increase in data use on 137 , to= date limited by bandwidth to psk31 , ros-mf by design occupying= on 50% of the allowable space on 137 and 99% of the 100Hz allo= cations for 500K. and passing via a non linear system , how lon= g will it before the first live data qso over the pond ? G .=20 From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:30 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon Gary There are too many variables with these experiments for instance the= French stn F5WK cannot hear you but you are S5 solid on 137.5 here at= my qth The RX stations antennas need to be analyised otherwise it misrepresen= ts what you are doing. Can u pse use frequencies below 136.5 kcs otherwise there is a problem= with EU and Russian stations using the area 137 - 137.778 kcs for QRS= acty. also this is the DX window area for the USA and others. 73 de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gary - G4WGT=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:31 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon Hi Mal,=20 Thank you for your report & comments. The mail you replied to gives= all the details of equipment in use for the test beacon. I would like to be able to have a QSO using morse but I have to admi= t to a complete loss of confidence as I have not used the mode for 25= years which was one year after I passed the test in 1984. Looking bac= k, letting it go was a silly thing to do. I do enjoy testing out these "weak signal" modes & in the report I= received from Michel F5WK last night he wrote that he could not hear= the signal or even see it on SpecLab but he got a complete decode. So= as a weak signal communication mode it works. Just to elaborate on the antenna, it is a 12 metre base loaded verti= cal with a small elevated inductor of 500uH at about 9 metres & a 1 x= 3 metre capacity top with a 120uH spiral inductor. In my small garden= I have no space to go outwards only upwards. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 20 June 2010 13:48, mal hamilton wrote: Gary If that was you last nite on 137.5 kcs you were strong enough for= cw or qrs3 no need to struggle with decodes from elswhere. also I had a qso with G3XIZ this morning on 137.0 kcs and got 599,= he was 569. Not sure what antenna u were using but it was putting out a fair= signal to this qth. Your radiators are probably acting as an antenna= above earth. de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gary - G4WGT=20 To: LF Group (RSGB)=20 Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 12:07 PM Subject: LF: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon Hi LF, Having successfully bench & on-air tested a x2 harmonic amplifie= r method of driving my G0MRF Class D LF transmitter, I ran a beacon la= st night (Saturday 19th) on 137.500 kHz. An extract from my previous e-mail description is shown at the= end. Using the equipment & method described below, the ERP from my 12= metre vertical antenna was around 150mW. The mode was ROS MF-1, 100= Hz bandwidth. I received the following report from Michel, F5WK in JN18HP, a= distance of 410 miles (661 kilometres) in daylight. >> Not even a faint trace on a QRSS3 spectrum but: >> RX1: 19:23 @ 5.9 Hz: 9 -37 dB >> RX1: 19:28 @ 5.4 Hz: O4WGT -34 dB >> RX1: 19:33 @ 5.4 Hz: G4WGT -31 dB The x2 harmonic low level amplifier is a simple way of driving= a Class D type of transmitter which employs a divide by 2 drive chain= . My limitation with multi tone drive is that my DDS VFO will only pro= duce 2 frequencies ie. the main frequency & a CW/Rx offset which has= previously limited me to 2 tones as with RTTY & DFCW modes. Please bear in mind that it will not be suitable for modes like= PSK were tones are transmitted simultaneously. At the moment the 2 small PCB's are precariously lying on the de= sk, when I have cased them I will publish the circuit & pictures. 73 Gary - G4WGT. *********************************************** After a few days experimenting & bench testing a method of dri= ving my G0MRF Class D Tx on the 137.000 kHz band from my linear transv= erter I finally constructed a harmonic amplifier producing a 274.000 kHz signa= l from 137.000 kHz input. An "on-air" trial was conducted resulting in a QSO= with Graham G0NBD on 137.000 kHz using ROS data mode software. =20 My thanks to Graham for his ideas & tests. =20 The mode used was ROS MF-7. The equipment used for the QSO was= as follows. Kenwood TS-440 to my LF-MF linear transverter produci= ng the 137.000 kHz signal, followed by a tuned harmonic circuit & buf= fer amplifier whose output was 274.000 kHz therefore at x2 drive= for the Class D Tx. The x2 signal is then divided by the Tx driver chain in= the normal way to provide 137.000 kHz to the PA. =20 This method should also work well using WSPR & other similar= modes. ********************************************* ------=_NextPart_000_00F8_01CB10B9.97985C50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
''''for instance the French stn F5WK&= nbsp;cannot=20 hear you'''''
 
Well  , yes , that's the = point  of=20 it  all  , no  noise, no  trace just  100% pu= re =20 digital  data rolling over the  land , like the  un-see= n =20 fog  of  progress 
 
IARU - R-1 plan .. 137.4 to 137.6&nbs= p; digital=20 modes , with the note that  CW is 'not allowed' 
 
I think the  test and  the&= nbsp;=20 frequency  went fully  to  'to plan' and paves the way&= nbsp; for=20 a magnitudinal  increase in  data  use on 137 , to date= limited=20 by bandwidth  to  psk31 , ros-mf  by  design = occupying=20 on 50%  of the  allowable  space on  137  and= 99% of=20 the  100Hz  allocations  for  500K. and  pass= ing=20 via  a  non linear  system , how  long will = it before=20 the  first  live  data  qso  over the = pond=20 ?
 
G .
 
 

Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon

Gary
There are too many variables with the= se experiments=20 for instance the French stn F5WK cannot hear you but you are S5= solid=20 on 137.5 here at my qth
The RX stations antennas need to be= analyised=20 otherwise it misrepresents what you are doing.
Can u pse use frequencies below 136.5= kcs otherwise=20 there is a problem with EU and Russian stations using the area 137 -= 137.778 kcs=20 for QRS acty.
also this is the DX window area for= the USA and=20 others.
73 de mal/g3kev
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010= 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500= kHz ROS=20 beacon

Hi Mal,=20

Thank you for your report & comments. The mail you replied= to gives=20 all the details of equipment in use for the test beacon.

I would like to be able to have a QSO using morse but I have to= admit to=20 a complete loss of confidence as I have not used the mode for 25 yea= rs which=20 was one year after I passed the test in 1984. Looking back, letting= it go was=20 a silly thing to do.

I do enjoy testing out these "weak signal" modes & in the= report I=20 received from Michel F5WK last night he wrote that he could not hear= the=20 signal or even see it on SpecLab but he got a complete decode. So as= a weak=20 signal communication mode it works.

Just to elaborate on the antenna, it is a 12 metre base loaded= vertical=20 with a small elevated inductor of 500uH at about 9 metres & a 1= x 3 metre=20 capacity top with a 120uH spiral inductor. In my small garden I have= no space=20 to go outwards only upwards.

73,

Gary - G4WGT.

On 20 June 2010 13:48, mal hamilton <g3kevm= al@talktalk.net>=20 wrote:
Gary
If that was you last nite on = ; 137.5 kcs=20 you were strong enough for cw or qrs3 no need to struggle wit= h decodes=20 from elswhere.
also I had a qso with G3XIZ this= morning on=20 137.0 kcs and got 599, he was 569.
Not sure what antenna u were usin= g but it=20 was putting out a fair signal to this qth. Your radiators are prob= ably=20 acting as an antenna above earth.
 
de mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 20= 10 12:07=20 PM
Subject: LF: 137.500 kHz= ROS=20 beacon

    Hi LF,
Having successfully bench & on-air tested a x2 harmonic= amplifier=20 method of driving my G0MRF Class D LF transmitter, I ran a beaco= n last=20 night (Saturday 19th) on 137.500 kHz.

An extract from my previous e-mail description is shown at= the=20 end.

Using the equipment & method described below, the ERP= from my 12=20 metre vertical antenna was around 150mW. The mode was ROS MF-1,= 100 Hz=20 bandwidth.

I received the following report from Michel, F5WK in JN18HP= , a=20 distance of 410 miles (661 kilometres) in daylight.

>> Not even a faint trace on a QRSS3 spectrum=20 but:

>> RX1: 19:23 @ 5.9 Hz: 9 <STOP> -37=20 dB
>> RX1: 19:28 @ 5.4 Hz: O4WGT <STOP> -34 dB>>=20 RX1: 19:33 @ 5.4 Hz: G4WGT <STOP> -31 dB

The x2 harmonic low level amplifier is a simple way of driv= ing a=20 Class D type of transmitter which employs a divide by 2 drive ch= ain. My=20 limitation with multi tone drive is that my DDS VFO will only pr= oduce 2=20 frequencies ie. the main frequency & a CW/Rx offset which ha= s=20 previously limited me to 2 tones as with RTTY & DFCW modes.<= /DIV>

Please bear in mind that it will not be suitable for modes= like PSK=20 were tones are transmitted simultaneously.

At the moment the 2 small PCB's are precariously lying on= the desk,=20 when I have cased them I will publish the circuit & pictures= .

73

Gary - G4WGT.
    ***********************************************
    After a few days experimenting & bench testing a method= of=20 driving my
    G0MRF Class D Tx on the 137.000 kHz band from my= linear=20 transverter I finally
    constructed a harmonic amplifier prod= ucing a=20 274.000 kHz signal from 137.000
    kHz input. An "on-air" tria= l was=20 conducted resulting in a QSO with
    Graham G0NBD on 137.000= kHz using=20 ROS data mode software.
     
    My thanks to Graham for= his ideas=20 & tests.
     
    The mode used was ROS MF-7. The equi= pment used=20 for the QSO was as
    follows. Kenwood TS-440 to my LF-MF line= ar=20 transverter producing the
    137.000 kHz signal, followed by= a tuned=20 harmonic circuit & buffer
    amplifier whose output was 27= 4.000 kHz=20 therefore at x2 drive for the Class
    D Tx. The x2 signal is= then=20 divided by the Tx driver chain in the
    normal way to provide= 137.000=20 kHz to the PA.
     
    This method should also work well= using WSPR=20 & other similar modes.
    *********************************************



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