Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di04.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di04.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.8]) by air-mc05.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMC054-a96a4c1e11142ec; Sun, 20 Jun 2010 09:01:08 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di04.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id A3200380000AC; Sun, 20 Jun 2010 09:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OQK88-0006NG-L4 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jun 2010 14:00:08 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OQK88-0006N7-0L for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jun 2010 14:00:08 +0100 Received: from mail-bw0-f43.google.com ([209.85.214.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OQK84-0004pq-KY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jun 2010 14:00:07 +0100 Received: by bwz19 with SMTP id 19so767147bwz.16 for ; Sun, 20 Jun 2010 06:00:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=bPK/ZYZz6n9Ndgf98z7nbBFHVYyreSQ7wUar4zzbwRo=; b=VMGFZMpqTllJuQ0V1zN25o8EFYlC3Qv/Nza13BrASYQUAqsgw0IeZ3Z5U+BGjPyS0Q KnLtcLAB4b3wcPNdkzrBxYN4Zfu596iWSVNn5SO2I+lAgFby6pYrg82CETmuppXeRKkm w4DfhRywTfZY1CZR2Pb7ltx8DLt4o7Yf2+u7M= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=HHAwUXQkVQuQr68jCfhJlcR9TXcrryJ42zGfXl9JgFMDjSPBk+NRZPqGobxo5r/r9v qkNdH1KjPhcxtooJ1c2CaxaC7CYl2wB5sTgO5C1TCO9dGl4IBSevefut0yR1jZZag+H8 1V3NhVAxl28qEMePb4cFwIwtbJszJO3bIEMC8= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.83.15 with SMTP id d15mr1828166bkl.41.1277038803427; Sun, 20 Jun 2010 06:00:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.100.69 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Jun 2010 06:00:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 14:00:03 +0100 Message-ID: From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: LF: Re: 500kHz earth electrode loop - further testing today with step-up transformer Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6dbde103e2083048975c43d X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m255.1 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : fail x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40084c1e11107dd4 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0016e6dbde103e2083048975c43d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Could a possible mechanism to explain why this tiny "loop in the ground" works as well as it does be that it acts as coupling loop into the nearby phone lines? These connect into the house at the front and none come anywhere near the back garden. I can't explain why my signals propagate so well with such a tiny loop unless something like this is happening. Maybe I'm getting a "free ride" from this? Has anyone else experienced something similar? Mind you, this does not explain why the direction of maximum ERP corresponds so classically to a true loop with the orientation of the loop I have. 73s Roger G3XBM On 20 June 2010 12:35, Roger Lapthorn wrote: > Some very interesting results so far, but still not tried a step up > transformer as the ones I've tried got hot. > > Just tried this... > > I've an earth rod just outside the back of the house, so I connected one > end of the 500kHz TX to this ground rod and disconnected completely the wire > to the ground rod down the far end of the garden. The other end of the loop > was connected to the copper central heating radiator as before. The length > of wire to the "outside the back door" ground is at most 7m long over the > flat roof and down to the rod. What happened? Current in the loop is up > 20%, voltage is down 20% but I'm still being received by M0BMU and G0KTN > (210km) with S/N within 2dB of the earlier "larger loop in the ground" set > up! > > So, what IS going on? Effectively all I have now is a short wire going to a > ground rod outside the back door and the other end to the radiator, yet 5W > from my 500kHz transverter is STILL getting halfway across England! > > I'm now more puzzled than before why this arrangement works at all, let > alone so well. > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > > > On 20 June 2010 10:23, Roger Lapthorn wrote: > >> In the next few hours I've a new experiment on 500kHz WSPR using my earth >> electrode "loop". >> >> A small step-up transformer should allow me to better match the earth loop >> and therefore increase the ERP some 4-6dB. To make a valid test I'll run the >> beacon for periods with and without the step-up transformer to see if a >> clear pattern emerges. You'll have to guess which is which. >> >> So, (as always) I'll much appreciate any 500kHz WSPR reports today. >> >> 73s >> Roger G3XBM >> >> -- >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >> http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm >> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 >> > > > > -- > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0016e6dbde103e2083048975c43d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Could a possible mechanism to explain why this tiny "loop in the grou= nd" works as well as it does be that it acts as coupling loop into th= e nearby phone lines? These connect into the house at the front and none= come anywhere near the back garden. I can't explain why my signals pr= opagate so well with such a tiny loop unless something like this is happen= ing. Maybe I'm getting a "free ride" from this? Has anyone= else experienced something similar?

Mind you, this does not explain why the direction of maximum ERP corre= sponds so classically to a true loop with the orientation of the loop I ha= ve.

73s
Roger G3XBM




On 20 June 2010 12:35, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com= > wrote:
Some very= interesting results so far, but still not tried a step up transformer as= the ones I've tried got hot.

Just tried this...

I've= an earth rod just outside the back of the house, so I connected one end= of the 500kHz TX to this ground rod and disconnected completely the wire= to the ground rod down the far end of the garden. The other end of the lo= op was connected to the copper central heating radiator as before. The len= gth of wire to the "outside the back door" ground is at most 7m= long over the flat roof and down to the rod. What happened? Current in th= e loop is up 20%,=A0 voltage is down 20% but I'm still being received= by M0BMU and G0KTN (210km) with S/N within 2dB of the earlier "large= r loop in the ground" set up!

So, what IS going on? Effectively all I have now is a short wire= going to a ground rod outside the back door and the other end to the radi= ator, yet 5W from my 500kHz transverter is STILL getting halfway across En= gland!

I'm now more puzzled than before why this arrangement works at all= , let alone so well.

73s
Roger G3XBM



On 20 June 2010 10:23, Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:
In the next few hours I've a new experiment on 500kHz WSPR= using my earth electrode "loop".

A small step-up transformer should allow me to better match the earth= loop and therefore increase the ERP some 4-6dB. To make a valid test I= 9;ll run the beacon for periods with and=20 without the step-up transformer to see if a clear pattern emerges. You'= ;ll have to guess which is which.

So, (as always) I'll much app= reciate any 500kHz WSPR reports today.

73s
Roger= G3XBM

--
ht= tp://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088



--
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogsp= ot.com/
http:/= /www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www= .youtube.com/user/g3xbm
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0016e6dbde103e2083048975c43d--