Return-Path: Received: from mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.77]) by air-df03.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDF032-5eeb4c270397101; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 03:53:59 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 497FA380000EA; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 03:53:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OSmfF-0004gA-K4 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 08:52:29 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OSmfF-0004g1-3f for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 08:52:29 +0100 Received: from mail-bw0-f43.google.com ([209.85.214.43]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OSmfD-0003nF-5i for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 08:52:29 +0100 Received: by bwz15 with SMTP id 15so2421648bwz.16 for ; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 00:52:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=aKhx1jaIsY4XSrqIwHXNd/Qr75rxoGah1WMv4SZXnK4=; b=WvztfyKwrBp8havKK4wQi/bXwLn1zncBrFhkc8zunPexYaPOuJHpEd4FQzPzdpZ24y qpNxy2t72pm8kzcBLMv1EOK+5ID+Uq/BKB9IIwFiHVxphEgWSVndZgoVDz/sZ/t+EnTB zIHxoOB+lU3VPHz4eWktsp9f7ew2XJLv1TU5g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=nxje4ItogWmp77u3ZQqZ6+pOjUgzukOmaMSrxNTNtrZ9Ai9LLuDLreEM1pHjUFJv1r rhWqvqmd+ckw9zUPrB/TrIRitks26ZC7S05NvlgON7Svt5ntheyXmxuLYiIDGJgqIw77 OMSDRrJbRIVYLC2JESdKMNQ2bACCeNBHEDzAU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.127.75 with SMTP id f11mr1072982bks.85.1277625144896; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 00:52:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.73.4 with HTTP; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 00:52:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1C68@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> References: <4C23FC42.8040204@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1C66@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> <4C25AE1F.7060807@gmx.com> <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1C68@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 08:52:24 +0100 Message-ID: From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: VLF earth antenna article in wiki Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d7ef8eeaed130489fe486b X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m248.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404d4c2703936068 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0016e6d7ef8eeaed130489fe486b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree about the Wiki antenna: it is strung between the mountains, not using buried electrodes. Maybe we dreamers need to consult some textbooks on ELF/VLF antennas? Another data source should be any publicly available papers about Project Sanguine antennas. IEEE Antennas and Propagation may have had some references in the 1970s or 80s? - Military Communications: From Ancient Times to the 21st Centurytal= ks about the Wisconsin Project Sanguine antennas being 14 miles long and mounted on 40 foot poles. This was for 76Hz. These were in some sort of array and connected by 165 miles of cable (this info can be read in the= book extract on Amazon!). - ELF Communications Antennasby Burrows is an IEE publication that must contain some useful information. Unfortunately these can be expensive to buy but I may be able to read copi= es at the University Library here in Cambridge. Usually such texts are highl= y mathematical whereas what I need is a good overview which could be easily grasped without too much maths. 73s Roger G3XBM 2010/6/26 Stefan Sch=E4fer > Hi Roger, VLF, > > Today Markus gave me the hint of an (at least for me) most interesting > article in wikipedia. It is about a "earth" antenna like we have it in > principle and it shows that it can indeed compete with a traditional mar= coni > antenna. Maybe you know that since 10s of years but for me it was new: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzogstand_Radio_Station > > or in german > > http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funkstation_am_Herzogstand (more detailed= and > with a picture of the antenna construction) > > > > 73, Stefan/DK7FC > > --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0016e6d7ef8eeaed130489fe486b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree about the Wiki antenna: it is strung between the mountains, not us= ing buried electrodes.

Maybe we dreamers need to consult some textb= ooks on ELF/VLF antennas?=A0 Another data source should be any publicly av= ailable papers about Project Sanguine antennas. IEEE Antennas and Propagat= ion may have had some references in the 1970s or 80s?
Unfortunately these can be expensive to buy but I may be able to read= copies at the University Library here in Cambridge.=A0 Usually such texts= are highly mathematical whereas what I need is a good overview which coul= d be easily grasped without too much maths.

73s
Roger G3XBM

2010/6/26 Stefan= Sch=E4fer <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>
Hi Roger, VLF,

Today Markus gave me the hint of an (at least for me) most interesting art= icle in wikipedia. It is about a "earth" antenna like we have it= in principle and it shows that it can indeed compete with a traditional= marconi antenna. Maybe you know that since 10s of years but for me it was= new:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzogstand_Radio_Station

or in german

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funkstation_am_Herzogstand (m= ore detailed and with a picture of the antenna construction)



73, Stefan/DK7FC




--
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0016e6d7ef8eeaed130489fe486b--