Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd07.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd07.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.147]) by air-dd06.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDD062-86344c19d6e6f2; Thu, 17 Jun 2010 04:03:50 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd07.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id E74F438000CB8; Thu, 17 Jun 2010 04:03:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OPA30-00052P-KF for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jun 2010 09:02:02 +0100 Received: from [83.244.159.144] (helo=relay3.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OPA2w-0004zQ-Pe for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jun 2010 09:01:58 +0100 Received: from mail-bw0-f43.google.com ([209.85.214.43]) by relay3.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OPA2s-0006Fg-T6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jun 2010 09:01:58 +0100 Received: by bwz19 with SMTP id 19so3649824bwz.16 for ; Thu, 17 Jun 2010 01:01:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=4jY0dqaATkdIhUJEaYbtttstYW2Cgq+/4rX4bPwYh0Y=; b=WIqopQ/+KmS3swDJAX/Nvu7Bcm1/YF/ac0XFlj1fq5z9CIGxkLn5F5x21kVhxtdeh8 X5CgyGVcUus2rFRx37fkhMw6bRm/a0Oaw5r3qVSRAkb403o/O9sk+5ZLnliK3fKwX28G ux/LYdw4y3jagU5kEu2eF74oqIpy/w5oITzc8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=SJav/OjWUvufay1Wt5eMCCY6dsOizsmS26RX1e7h8csjGCJDPAsmXcZ4rOsCCrJhZ/ Tcurjy6mXxvUSUo4AADZynf0AW2vbCXqc63nULpRNd4f91SB7IsmAGRQCsvv0L6XxXy2 pWbHC0+JqOFAdYDrqpoVPZKgmHLQfCDcYOdBM= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.47.6 with SMTP id l6mr7426616bkf.90.1276761711177; Thu, 17 Jun 2010 01:01:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.100.69 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Jun 2010 01:01:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <569132.43932.qm@web81107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <648287CF-49D0-4E2E-BCE5-B20F634C9384@numeo.fr> <569132.43932.qm@web81107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 09:01:50 +0100 Message-ID: From: Roger Lapthorn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR=0.276 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Who needs antennas! - success with ground electrodes on 500kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6dbde3041eed6048935405e X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.1 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m247.2 ; domain : gmail.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40934c19d6e36a1e X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) --0016e6dbde3041eed6048935405e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 It is about 44-70kms with M0BMU being the furtherest (see WSPR log). 73s Roger G3XBM On 17 June 2010 02:38, Paul Cianciolo wrote: > Can you tell us what the distance is between Roger and M0BMU, G7NKS and > M0JXM ??? > > PaulC > > > --- On *Wed, 6/16/10, John Rabson * wrote: > > > From: John Rabson > Subject: Re: LF: RE: Who needs antennas! - success with ground electrodes > on 500kHz > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 4:11 PM > > > Some years ago, the Cave Radio & Electronics Group was conducting tests on > 87 kHz between surface and underground at Roger Kirk Cave near Ribblehead > viaduct in Yorkshire. After we had finished the tests I tuned the surface > receiver up to 136 and got very good signals from EI0CF. Unfortunately there > was no mobile phone service at the site so we could not let him know > immediately. We did send him a QSL card. > > 73 > John F5VLF/G3PAI > > On 16 Jun 2010, at 21:51CEST, Roger Lapthorn wrote: > > Correction - I'm also copying *PE1GRL* at -18dB S/N using the earth > electrode set-up! > > 73s > Roger G3XBM > > On 16 June 2010 20:43, Dave G3WCB > > wrote: > >> That's pretty amazing. You must have really bad soil conductivity. Did >> you try receiving on the earth-loop antenna? >> >> Would the technique work on 137 kHz, I wonder. >> >> 73, Dave G3WCB IO91RM, nr Windsor, S.E. England >> >> -----Original Message----- >> *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org[mailto: >> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> ]*On Behalf Of *Roger Lapthorn >> *Sent:* 16 June 2010 20:11 >> *To:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> *Subject:* LF: Who needs antennas! - success with ground electrodes on >> 500kHz >> >> Well, I'm amazed. >> >> This evening I connected my 500kHz transverter straight to the two >> connections of my sub-9kHz grounded electrodes and TXed WSPR. No attempt was >> made to match anything on the assumption that the two electrodes system >> looked not too far from 50 ohms resistive as measured between 1-9kHz.. Pout >> from the IRF510 is around 5W. What happened? * >> >> Three people copied me* - M0BMU, G7NKS and M0JXM with reports between -21 >> and -28dB S/N. The wire to the furtherest ground rod is at most 20m long and >> most of the way it is 1.5m above ground. Once again, this must be acting as >> a pretty effective loop mostly within the ground. Screen grab of the WSPR >> log attached. >> >> So, if you live on clunchy chalk soils like me then don't worry too much >> about big antennas, :-) >> >> 73s >> Roger G3XBM >> >> -- >> http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ >> http://www.g3xbm.co.uk >> http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm >> G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 >> >> > > > -- > http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ > http://www.g3xbm.co.uk > http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm > G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 > > > -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 --0016e6dbde3041eed6048935405e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It is about 44-70kms with M0BMU being the furtherest (see WSPR log).
73s
Roger G3XBM

On 17 June 2010 02:= 38, Paul Cianciolo <paulc@snet.net> wrote:
Can you tell us what the distance is between Roger and M0BMU, G7NKS= and M0JXM ???
=A0
PaulC


--- On Wed, 6/16/10, John Rabson <john.rabson@numeo.fr> wrote:

From: John Rabson <john.rabson@numeo.fr>
Subjec= t: Re: LF: RE: Who needs antennas! - success with ground electrodes on 500= kHz

To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010,= 4:11 PM


Some years ago, the Cave Radio & Electronics Group was conducting= tests on 87 kHz between surface and underground at Roger Kirk Cave near= Ribblehead viaduct in Yorkshire. After we had finished the tests I tuned= the surface receiver up to 136 and got very good signals from EI0CF. Unfo= rtunately there was no mobile phone service at the site so we could not le= t him know immediately. We did send him a QSL card.

=A073
John F5VLF/G3PAI
=A0
On 16 Jun 2010, at 21:51CEST, Roger Lapthorn wrote:

Correction - I'm also copying PE1GRL= at -18dB S/N using the earth electrode set-up!

73s
Roger G3XBM<= br>
On 16 June 2010 20:43, Dave G3WCB <ganymede444@btope= nworld.com> wrote:
That's pr= etty amazing. You must have really bad soil conductivity. Did you try rece= iving on the earth-loop antenna?
=A0
Would the tec= hnique work on 137 kHz, I wonder.
=A0
73, Dave G3WC= B IO91RM, nr Windsor, S.E. England
-----Orig= inal Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org]On Behalf Of Roger Lapthorn
Sent: 16 June 2010 20:11
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject:= LF: Who needs antennas! - success with ground electrodes on 500kHz

Well, I'm amazed.

This evening I connected my= 500kHz transverter straight to the two connections of my sub-9kHz grounded electrodes and TX= ed WSPR. No attempt was made to match anything on the assumption that the= two electrodes system looked not too far from 50 ohms resistive as measur= ed between 1-9kHz.. Pout from the IRF510 is around 5W. What happened? <= br>
Three people copied me - M0BMU, G7NKS and M0JXM with reports betwe= en -21 and -28dB S/N. The wire to the furtherest ground rod is at most 20m= long and most of the way it is 1.5m above ground. Once again, this must= be acting as a pretty effective loop mostly within the ground.=A0 Screen= grab of the WSPR log attached.

So, if you live on clunchy chalk soils like me then don't worry to= o much about big antennas, :-)

73s
Roger G3XBM
=
--
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
htt= p://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm<= br>G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088



--
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0= =A0 =A0ISWL G11088




--
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm
G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088
--0016e6dbde3041eed6048935405e--