Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mi02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mi02.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.131.155]) by air-di06.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDI063-eacc4c270dee39a; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 04:38:06 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mi02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id B0FE338000098; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 04:38:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OSnLj-0007Kd-Kf for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 09:36:23 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OSnLj-0007KU-32 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 09:36:23 +0100 Received: from web28107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com ([217.146.182.127]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OSnLi-0005ie-Ul for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 09:36:23 +0100 Received: (qmail 95874 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Jun 2010 08:36:16 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s1024; t=1277627776; bh=zrS8O6+IQwPbikz0Lt22gx6ynCI8ZC8rHoRQ6vS/wyg=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=sHTJdmYB/r3pKhEABU7UkzYpRVfCrwpUhudSXWYoPG8ngpm8jI5+nsvmfN3wPPDKpZPTg4vu6AFGAhmnpQuidTtzZuajdyydGM1khBS4yv22/KrlTl9bsI3MbVA+W/sVm0T/FOwRBFpitw8GXRtxp8H4nkl/TteDRKvnCDKdtes= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.co.uk; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=tQyv3v5nnG0BGjoxBSRMJHsXDBfJd7HaZ+9mbIxPG4jqvHM5mstHGvsgbQ3iExWOwuaS/P4OToY/CUprCooyGWdbDWwZ45yjf/JEN+B4PBfXhEVaaHtdSvlQI+gdjm/xXFbQYtbqyBqKJyyhDhNfKgi+0hW312xOPdMEXjUzmgI=; Message-ID: <662672.95471.qm@web28107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: dUecAM0VM1nx5Q6umezuP9MKy7yU.TVbcEXNdHkoEDBaqwC 43C5XEd3Gvrn5A0NaxezqKw2acc8yKTX71imOidUQuu6T1.gVUVVlPMd37gI .1xOCarlpk3HzNaRkesmAY_hk40RmYPwR0BKfkMJX9P23f5RZRl8GgnKAEhR V6jwC0S9zQ8_L54LkHxF3XgTIukW_LLN0BdEolL9Or0urB6cZlpZZRuWN6ui Eu3mP4rSy_DkGBUxqQsOL1p6kXqp9meLl.HatQ_o2HJYodgVV9rR31OwZEui zhqY- Received: from [86.152.86.12] by web28107.mail.ukl.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 27 Jun 2010 01:36:16 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.1.4 YahooMailWebService/0.8.104.274457 Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 01:36:16 -0700 (PDT) From: M0FMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: VLF earth antenna article in wiki Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1339243365-1277627776=:95471" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m238.2 ; domain : yahoo.co.uk DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039400cdeca4c270deb23e7 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1339243365-1277627776=:95471 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Group =A0 Perhaps not so grand as Herzostand Station but WT Station Criggion was bui= ld in a bit of a hurry and used the side of a Welsh "mountain" as the far= end achorage of the 16kc/s Antenna. Before its destruction in 2003 the st= ation was entered via a Hanson slate quarry. I had the fun of working ther= e not many years before that on a few occations adding 21st century EMP pr= oof=A0Fibre optic communication to a TX that use massive thermionic Valves= ! =A0 http://www.oswestry-history.co.uk/criggion-radio-station.html =A0 But as with all V / LF stations most of the RF went into the ground anyway= . 73 es GL petefmt I support www.NotSpotTelecom.Com your community Telco / ISP. --- On Sun, 27/6/10, Roger Lapthorn wrote: From: Roger Lapthorn Subject: Re: LF: VLF earth antenna article in wiki To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sunday, 27 June, 2010, 8:52 I agree about the Wiki antenna: it is strung between the mountains, not us= ing buried electrodes. Maybe we dreamers need to consult some textbooks on ELF/VLF antennas?=A0= Another data source should be any publicly available papers about Project= Sanguine antennas. IEEE Antennas and Propagation may have had some refere= nces in the 1970s or 80s?=20 Military Communications: From Ancient Times to the 21st Century talks abou= t the Wisconsin Project Sanguine antennas being 14 miles long and mounted= on 40 foot poles. This was for 76Hz. These were in some sort of array and= connected by 165 miles of cable (this info can be read in the book extrac= t on Amazon!).=A0=20 ELF Communications Antennas by Burrows is an IEE publication that must con= tain some useful information.Unfortunately these can be expensive to buy= but I may be able to read copies at the University Library here in Cambri= dge.=A0 Usually such texts are highly mathematical whereas what I need is= a good overview which could be easily grasped without too much maths. 73s Roger G3XBM 2010/6/26 Stefan Sch=E4fer Hi Roger, VLF, Today Markus gave me the hint of an (at least for me) most interesting art= icle in wikipedia. It is about a "earth" antenna like we have it in princi= ple and it shows that it can indeed compete with a traditional marconi ant= enna. Maybe you know that since 10s of years but for me it was new: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzogstand_Radio_Station or in german http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funkstation_am_Herzogstand (more detailed and= with a picture of the antenna construction) 73, Stefan/DK7FC --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088 =20 --0-1339243365-1277627776=:95471 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Group
 
Perhaps not so grand as Herzostand Station but WT Station Criggion wa= s build in a bit of a hurry and used the side of a Welsh "mountain" as the= far end achorage of the 16kc/s Antenna. Before its destruction in 2003 th= e station was entered via a Hanson slate quarry. I had the fun of working= there not many years before that on a few occations adding 21st century= EMP proof Fibre optic communication to a TX that use massive thermio= nic Valves!
 
But as with all V / LF stations most of the RF went into the ground= anyway.

73 es GL petefmt

I support www.NotSpotTelecom.Com your com= munity Telco / ISP.

--- On Sun, 27/6/10, Roger Lapthorn <r= ogerlapthorn@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Roger Lapthorn <rogerlapthorn@gmail.c= om>
Subject: Re: LF: VLF earth antenna article in wiki
To: rsgb_l= f_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Sunday, 27 June, 2010, 8:52

I agree about the Wiki antenna: it is strung betwe= en the mountains, not using buried electrodes.

Maybe we dreamers ne= ed to consult some textbooks on ELF/VLF antennas?  Another data sourc= e should be any publicly available papers about Project Sanguine antennas.= IEEE Antennas and Propagation may have had some references in the 1970s= or 80s?
Unfortunately these can be expensive to buy= but I may be able to read copies at the University Library here in Cambri= dge.  Usually such texts are highly mathematical whereas what I need= is a good overview which could be easily grasped without too much maths.<= BR>
73s
Roger G3XBM

2010/6/26 Stefan Sch=E4fer <schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de>
Hi Roger, VLF,
<= BR>Today Markus gave me the hint of an (at least for me) most interesting= article in wikipedia. It is about a "earth" antenna like we have it in pr= inciple and it shows that it can indeed compete with a traditional marconi= antenna. Maybe you know that since 10s of years but for me it was new:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzogstand_Radi= o_Station

or in german

http://d= e.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funkstation_am_Herzogstand (more detailed and wit= h a picture of the antenna construction)



73, Stefan/DK7FC



--
http://g3xbm-qrp= .blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/u= ser/g3xbm
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11= 088

=20 --0-1339243365-1277627776=:95471--