Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mj09.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.21.164.93]) by air-md01.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMD013-8b764c197d06392; Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:40:22 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id F25683800018C; Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:40:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OP445-0003Oj-EA for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jun 2010 02:38:45 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OP444-0003Oa-U2 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jun 2010 02:38:44 +0100 Received: from web81107.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.199.99]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OP444-0000Mt-57 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jun 2010 02:38:44 +0100 Received: (qmail 43963 invoked by uid 60001); 17 Jun 2010 01:38:36 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=snet.net; s=s1024; t=1276738716; bh=llmN2KNNwTxW7aVxPf6e/GYDw40sSmdwj1lq32YDbcw=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=GjQZXU20jCcVu0fBdbAGQNoUr8Il4mp2PtbWaJjZXwvEWOTHbtiuVvkYuSBTiWI6KByeMwOPWlv13mI4yTSJDq19WlbmhjiIxVReAC0nOovot/6KgX7HdHwdavGmuoL3aaziElPYFtYe5UamZiL1pJDr0kYsxFdDdYS5VHp59VI= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=snet.net; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=JL89RezfU/UBV8IdPciK1MxZS/0ARSqj1THzNG0731wv1n7tSYYB7nVjbzOvok6IctyheAyOnYp4rUdKLQxFRkknvsToUOuPKdFAsvzAd7znzpGF9ZXMjBbVauMQs2/7sxB7B3sJFbA9DpDu6+eJexMqs1fs51O85LYIqY6nD54=; Message-ID: <569132.43932.qm@web81107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 1_UcUfoVM1mpAnfImlZ_9JOl7rI02JYF8O7KEn8oGL1nOR2 YxRJrTieJUjwnKIolFT0fsk2AQgSblXKEnbjSCgKCndmWrskdrbkyCc9OJNk oVM7FtlpQXxvybQVkFM1dxemALYEViTIOjc9TDt6j40b8HpE6WuHkx11F4_U ey7Wvi8dBn4u9DSjEq_MH50Kd_g.IwLuYqe.PMgXKt7iQov9CDm5DavIr4KS d1XAhxDmiaB9gBKGP0Fl_WaIJP7BEj9Zws.Mh9ILAYxaBm47DhfSaYKbCEBZ ydIs9iY_OBZ8a6GNJDLL3URJ1LKTiADZpaf2Y6paqw0fhjGr2gAUOj7Q- Received: from [75.60.109.251] by web81107.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 16 Jun 2010 18:38:36 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailClassic/11.1.4 YahooMailWebService/0.8.103.269680 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 18:38:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Cianciolo To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <648287CF-49D0-4E2E-BCE5-B20F634C9384@numeo.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) Subject: Re: LF: RE: Who needs antennas! - success with ground electrodes on 500kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1238576676-1276738716=:43932" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mail_rly_antispam_dkim-m286.1 ; domain : snet.net DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039400c89b24c197d041b54 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 --0-1238576676-1276738716=:43932 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can you tell us what the distance is between Roger and M0BMU, G7NKS and M0= JXM ??? =A0 PaulC --- On Wed, 6/16/10, John Rabson wrote: From: John Rabson Subject: Re: LF: RE: Who needs antennas! - success with ground electrodes= on 500kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wednesday, June 16, 2010, 4:11 PM Some years ago, the Cave Radio & Electronics Group was conducting tests on= 87 kHz between surface and underground at Roger Kirk Cave near Ribblehead= viaduct in Yorkshire. After we had finished the tests I tuned the surface= receiver up to 136 and got very good signals from EI0CF. Unfortunately th= ere was no mobile phone service at the site so we could not let him know= immediately. We did send him a QSL card. =A073 John F5VLF/G3PAI =A0 On 16 Jun 2010, at 21:51CEST, Roger Lapthorn wrote: Correction - I'm also copying PE1GRL at -18dB S/N using the earth electrod= e set-up! 73s Roger G3XBM On 16 June 2010 20:43, Dave G3WCB wrote: That's pretty amazing. You must have really bad soil conductivity. Did you= try receiving on the earth-loop antenna? =A0 Would the technique work on 137 kHz, I wonder. =A0 73, Dave G3WCB IO91RM, nr Windsor, S.E. England -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org]On Behalf Of Roger Lapthorn Sent: 16 June 2010 20:11 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Who needs antennas! - success with ground electrodes on 500kH= z Well, I'm amazed.=20 This evening I connected my 500kHz transverter straight to the two connect= ions of my sub-9kHz grounded electrodes and TXed WSPR. No attempt was made= to match anything on the assumption that the two electrodes system looked= not too far from 50 ohms resistive as measured between 1-9kHz.. Pout from= the IRF510 is around 5W. What happened?=20 Three people copied me - M0BMU, G7NKS and M0JXM with reports between -21= and -28dB S/N. The wire to the furtherest ground rod is at most 20m long= and most of the way it is 1.5m above ground. Once again, this must be act= ing as a pretty effective loop mostly within the ground.=A0 Screen grab of= the WSPR log attached. So, if you live on clunchy chalk soils like me then don't worry too much= about big antennas, :-) 73s Roger G3XBM --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088 --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm G3XBM =A0 =A0GQRP 1678 =A0 =A0 =A0ISWL G11088 --0-1238576676-1276738716=:43932 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --0-1238576676-1276738716=:43932--
Can you tell us what the distance is= between Roger and M0BMU, G7NKS and M0JXM ???
 
PaulC


--- On Wed, 6/16/10, John Rabson <john.rabs= on@numeo.fr> wrote:

From: John Rabson <john.rabson@numeo.fr>=
Subject: Re: LF: RE: Who needs antennas! - success with ground electro= des on 500kHz
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Wednesday, June= 16, 2010, 4:11 PM

Some years ago, the Cave Radio & Electronics= Group was conducting tests on 87 kHz between surface and underground at= Roger Kirk Cave near Ribblehead viaduct in Yorkshire. After we had finish= ed the tests I tuned the surface receiver up to 136 and got very good sign= als from EI0CF. Unfortunately there was no mobile phone service at the sit= e so we could not let him know immediately. We did send him a QSL card.

 73
John F5VLF/G3PAI
 
On 16 Jun 2010, at 21:51CEST, Roger Lapthorn wrote:

Correction - I'm also copying PE1GRL at= -18dB S/N using the earth electrode set-up!

73s
Roger G3XBM
=
On 16 June 2010 20:43, Dave G3WCB <ganymede444@btopenworld.com> wrote:
That's pretty amazi= ng. You must have really bad soil conductivity. Did you try receiving on= the earth-loop antenna?
 = ;
Would the technique= work on 137 kHz, I wonder.
 = ;
73, Dave G3WCB IO91= RM, nr Windsor, S.E. England
-----Original Mes= sage-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_gro= up@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf= _group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Roger Lapthorn
Sent: 16 June 2010 20:11
To: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
Subject: LF: Who needs antennas! - success with gr= ound electrodes on 500kHz

Well, I'm amazed.

Th= is evening I connected my 500kHz transverter straight to the two connections of my sub-9kHz grounded electrodes and TX= ed WSPR. No attempt was made to match anything on the assumption that the= two electrodes system looked not too far from 50 ohms resistive as measur= ed between 1-9kHz.. Pout from the IRF510 is around 5W. What happened? <= BR>
Three people copied me - M0BMU, G7NKS and M0JXM with reports be= tween -21 and -28dB S/N. The wire to the furtherest ground rod is at most= 20m long and most of the way it is 1.5m above ground. Once again, this mu= st be acting as a pretty effective loop mostly within the ground.  Sc= reen grab of the WSPR log attached.

So, if you live on clunchy chal= k soils like me then don't worry too much about big antennas, :-)

7= 3s
Roger G3XBM

--
http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/=
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm<= BR>G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088



--
http://g3xbm= -qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com= /user/g3xbm
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL= G11088