Return-Path: Received: from mtain-md09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-md09.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.93]) by air-mf02.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMF021-8bcd4c1be5f5330; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 17:32:37 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-md09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DBAEF380000CD; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 17:32:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OPjAE-0007DX-Tt for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 22:31:50 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OPjAE-0007DO-Fy for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 22:31:50 +0100 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OPjAC-0002WQ-NG for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 22:31:50 +0100 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o5ILVlqi007003 for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 23:31:47 +0200 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Fri, 18 Jun 2010 23:31:46 +0200 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 23:31:46 +0200 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1C56@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1C56@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: Earth electrode loop area - I'm struggling Thread-Index: AcsPJZhs2J6LecK2S8aSj2vO0xVVGgAAeUnXAAFXzgI= References: From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 21.132;18.06.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.395186, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.6.18.212116 X-PMX-RELAY: mailout X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,none Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CB0F2D.A75E1852" Subject: LF: AW: RE: Earth electrode loop area - I'm struggling X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/59935 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d605d4c1be5f26a21 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB0F2D.A75E1852 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interesting! I wish i would know my ERP during the 9 kHz test where i reached 2km. But= the grabber is still not calibrated :-(=20 =20 Roger, when will you try 137 kHz? =20 73 es gl =20 Stefan/DK7FC ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Rik Strobbe Gesendet: Fr 18.06.2010 23:10 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: LF: RE: Earth electrode loop area - I'm struggling Hello Roger, =20 my pennyworth: =20 assuming=20 - 50uW ERP - antenna is traded as a loop (gain =3D -0.4dBd) =20 Due to the negative gain (-0.4dB versus dipole) a loop antenna must "radia= te" 55uW to get 50uW ERP. Since the antenna feeding current is 0.15A the radiation resistance is 2.4= 4 milliOhm (R=3D P/I^2) The radiation resistance of a small loop is : Ra =3D 320xPi^4*A^2/L^4 where A =3D loop area (m^2) and L =3D wavelength (m) For 500kHz Ra =3D 5*10^(-7)*A^2 or A =3D 1416*sqrt(Ra) If Ra =3D 0.00244 Ohm then effective the loop area is 70m^2 =20 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T =20 =20 ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.or= g] namens Roger Lapthorn [rogerlapthorn@gmail.com] Verzonden: vrijdag 18 juni 2010 22:29 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: LF: Earth electrode loop area - I'm struggling Please can someone help me with the maths? I've been trying to work out my= effective loop area and I cannot get sensible answers. These are the meas= ured or estimated numbers I have: Voltage across "loop" =3D 24.48V rms - measured Current flowing in "loop" =3D 0.15A - measured ERP (from far field levels) =3D 50-100uW (may be less) based on -18dB S/N= with M0BMU >From these figures I should be able to work out the loop area, but either= my calculations are wrong or the figure is correct and the effective loop= area is very very small. Help! 73s Roger G3XBM --=20 http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk =20 http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB0F2D.A75E1852 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ii8VAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEgAEAMwAAAEFXOiBSRTogRWFydGggZWxl Y3Ryb2RlIGxvb3AgYXJlYSAtIEknbSBzdHJ1Z2dsaW5nAPEQAQWAAwAOAAAA2gcGABIAFwAfAC4A BQBiAQEggAMADgAAANoHBgASABcAHwAuAAUAYgEBCYABACEAAAA3NUU3Mjg3NDVENjY4RDRFODRF N0QwRDQyREREQ0I3NQBaBwEDkAYAOBgAADgAAAADADYAAAAAAEAAOQBSGF6nLQ/LAR4APQABAAAA BQAAAEFXOiAAAAAAAgFHAAEAAAAyAAAAYz1ERTthPSA7cD1IU1Q7bD1GSUxFLVNFUlZFUi1IUy0x MDA2MTgyMTMxNDZaLTU5MgAAAB4ASQABAAAAMwAAAExGOiBSRTogRWFydGggZWxlY3Ryb2RlIGxv b3AgYXJlYSAtIEknbSBzdHJ1Z2dsaW5nAABAAE4AANaPuyoPywEeAFoAAQAAACMAAABvd25lci1y c2diX2xmX2dyb3VwQGJsYWNrc2hlZXAub3JnAAACAVsAAQAAAGMAAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd 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