Return-Path: Received: from mtain-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.96.22]) by air-dc03.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDC034-86a14c128e118; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 15:27:13 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-mb02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 036DD380000DB; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 15:27:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1ON9ri-0001mH-JK for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 20:26:06 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ON9ri-0001m8-5b for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 20:26:06 +0100 Received: from lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de ([130.83.156.225]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1ON9rg-0005Xj-FO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 20:26:06 +0100 Received: from FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de (File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de [130.83.212.129]) by lnx500.hrz.tu-darmstadt.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/HRZ/PMX) with SMTP id o5BJQ3q8009788 for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 21:26:03 +0200 (envelope-from schaefer@hst.tu-darmstadt.de) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de) by FILE-SERVER-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de with AVK MailGateway; for ; Fri, 11 Jun 2010 21:26:03 +0200 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 21:22:06 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Message-ID: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1C3F@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <38A51B74B884D74083D7950AD0DD85E82A1C3F@File-Server-HST.hst.e-technik.tu-darmstadt.de> Thread-Topic: LF: LF/VLF Thread-Index: AcsJmM/3NPUcw/55QZOAWva5n9F/awAApENn References: <002401cb096b$7d950560$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <003a01cb097f$640755d0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <4C12878A.4080909@gmx.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Stefan_Sch=E4fer?= To: X-AVK-Virus-Check: AVB 21.112;11.06.2010 X-PMX-TU: seen v0.99a by 5.5.9.395186, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2010.6.11.191514 X-PMX-RELAY: mailout X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS=1.166 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01CB099B.EE288FB6" Subject: AW: LF: LF/VLF X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=SUBJ_ALL_CAPS autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-VSS-INFO: 5400.1158/59678 X-AOL-VSS-CODE: clean x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d60164c128e0f73bc X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) ------_=_NextPart_001_01CB099B.EE288FB6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mike, =20 Interesting! Maybe i should try a loop for 137 kHz in the winther. I have= a LOT of space there in the nearby forest. This would by my only chance= to have a TX antenna that is fixed. The main problem will be that i am ve= ry spoiled by my kite antenna ;-) But it may be an alternative if there is= no wind. Tnx for making the ideas ;-) =20 73, Stefan ________________________________ Von: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org im Auftrag von Mike-WE0H Gesendet: Fr 11.06.2010 20:59 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: LF/VLF I did testing several years ago with a 200' TX loop and a 45' vertical with a 72' flattop. The band was 1750 meters. The loop and the vertical were mounted in the woods with 70' plus oak trees. What was found was at outside air temperatures of 32F and above, the vertical's signal hardly radiated groundwave or skywave. The signal from the vertical was barely audible at 75 miles and not visible in ARGO at 1000 miles. The TX loop signal was S-9 at 75 miles and showing real well in ARGO at 1000 miles. The groundwave receive station was at 75 miles from the TX site. The skywave station was at roughly 1000 miles from the TX site. As the temperature went down from 32F, the vertical's radiated signal increased until the temperature was roughly 10F where the vertical's signal matched the TX loops signal on both the 75 mile & the 1000 mile receive sites. The TX loop was a Bill Ashlock loop design, series resonated with low loss caps and transformer coupled with a -43 material ferrite core. The transformer turns ratio was set to match a 50 ohm amplifier output impedance. This TX loop was in a vertical plane laying in the tree tops and running 6' off the ground on the bottom side. Similar testing proved a TX loop was not necessary on the 600 meter band as trees do not significantly affect a 600m signal. Other US Amateur's have tested TX loops and verticals around trees on the 2200 meter band and found the TX loop was necessary on that band when there was a lot of trees nearby. 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