Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.151]) by air-md03.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMD033-8b7e4c1faa671ff; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 14:07:35 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dd11.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 0A42B380000B1; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 14:07:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OQlO3-0006vp-KE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 19:06:23 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OQlO2-0006vg-QP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 19:06:22 +0100 Received: from out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.240]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OQlNz-0002OT-Bw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jun 2010 19:06:22 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjMFACNHH0xOk8gW/2dsb2JhbACBQ41ij2Jxw3yFGwSNeA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.53,454,1272841200"; d="scan'208,217";a="294907120" Received: from unknown (HELO your91hoehfy9g) ([78.147.200.22]) by out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 21 Jun 2010 19:06:11 +0100 Message-ID: <004801cb116c$6e98d100$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <002401cb1076$f4620140$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <005b01cb109e$58400960$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <001501cb1155$38cbbe00$0301a8c0@your91hoehfy9g> <2FE66D7AB59E43F3BDA1288BA86CC9D1@AGB> Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 19:06:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0045_01CB1174.D01819B0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40974c1faa624361 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01CB1174.D01819B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not RESRVED but a recommendation, on amateur radio bands CW is permit= ted throughout the band wherea data modes and ssb are NOT G3KEV ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 5:17 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon Scotch Mist . no just the fog of progress ... besides, the freq= uency slot is reserved for data only ,=20 So there is no possibility of qrm , unless the reference is to= key clicks ? From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 4:20 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon So this mode is invisible, in that case I and other CW operators wil= l not know it is there. No evasive action required to avoid QRM to it= or the reverse.=20 Wonderful news What I saw and heard the other night was Scotch Mist g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Graham=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 8:46 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon ''''for instance the French stn F5WK cannot hear you''''' Well , yes , that's the point of it all , no noise, no trac= e just 100% pure digital data rolling over the land , like the un= -seen fog of progress =20 IARU - R-1 plan .. 137.4 to 137.6 digital modes , with the note= that CW is 'not allowed' =20 I think the test and the frequency went fully to 'to plan'= and paves the way for a magnitudinal increase in data use on 137= , to date limited by bandwidth to psk31 , ros-mf by design occup= ying on 50% of the allowable space on 137 and 99% of the 100Hz= allocations for 500K. and passing via a non linear system , ho= w long will it before the first live data qso over the pond ? G .=20 From: mal hamilton=20 Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:30 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon Gary There are too many variables with these experiments for instance= the French stn F5WK cannot hear you but you are S5 solid on 137.5 her= e at my qth The RX stations antennas need to be analyised otherwise it misrepr= esents what you are doing. Can u pse use frequencies below 136.5 kcs otherwise there is a pro= blem with EU and Russian stations using the area 137 - 137.778 kcs for= QRS acty. also this is the DX window area for the USA and others. 73 de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gary - G4WGT=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 4:31 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon Hi Mal,=20 Thank you for your report & comments. The mail you replied to gi= ves all the details of equipment in use for the test beacon. I would like to be able to have a QSO using morse but I have to= admit to a complete loss of confidence as I have not used the mode fo= r 25 years which was one year after I passed the test in 1984. Looking= back, letting it go was a silly thing to do. I do enjoy testing out these "weak signal" modes & in the report= I received from Michel F5WK last night he wrote that he could not hea= r the signal or even see it on SpecLab but he got a complete decode.= So as a weak signal communication mode it works. Just to elaborate on the antenna, it is a 12 metre base loaded= vertical with a small elevated inductor of 500uH at about 9 metres &= a 1 x 3 metre capacity top with a 120uH spiral inductor. In my small= garden I have no space to go outwards only upwards. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 20 June 2010 13:48, mal hamilton wrot= e: Gary If that was you last nite on 137.5 kcs you were strong enough= for cw or qrs3 no need to struggle with decodes from elswhere. also I had a qso with G3XIZ this morning on 137.0 kcs and got= 599, he was 569. Not sure what antenna u were using but it was putting out a fa= ir signal to this qth. Your radiators are probably acting as an antenn= a above earth. de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gary - G4WGT=20 To: LF Group (RSGB)=20 Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 12:07 PM Subject: LF: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon Hi LF, Having successfully bench & on-air tested a x2 harmonic ampl= ifier method of driving my G0MRF Class D LF transmitter, I ran a beaco= n last night (Saturday 19th) on 137.500 kHz. An extract from my previous e-mail description is shown at= the end. Using the equipment & method described below, the ERP from= my 12 metre vertical antenna was around 150mW. The mode was ROS MF-1,= 100 Hz bandwidth. I received the following report from Michel, F5WK in JN18HP,= a distance of 410 miles (661 kilometres) in daylight. >> Not even a faint trace on a QRSS3 spectrum but: >> RX1: 19:23 @ 5.9 Hz: 9 -37 dB >> RX1: 19:28 @ 5.4 Hz: O4WGT -34 dB >> RX1: 19:33 @ 5.4 Hz: G4WGT -31 dB The x2 harmonic low level amplifier is a simple way of drivi= ng a Class D type of transmitter which employs a divide by 2 drive cha= in. My limitation with multi tone drive is that my DDS VFO will only= produce 2 frequencies ie. the main frequency & a CW/Rx offset which= has previously limited me to 2 tones as with RTTY & DFCW modes. Please bear in mind that it will not be suitable for modes= like PSK were tones are transmitted simultaneously. At the moment the 2 small PCB's are precariously lying on th= e desk, when I have cased them I will publish the circuit & pictures. 73 Gary - G4WGT. *********************************************** After a few days experimenting & bench testing a method of= driving my G0MRF Class D Tx on the 137.000 kHz band from my linear tr= ansverter I finally constructed a harmonic amplifier producing a 274.000 kHz= signal from 137.000 kHz input. An "on-air" trial was conducted resulting in a= QSO with Graham G0NBD on 137.000 kHz using ROS data mode software. =20 My thanks to Graham for his ideas & tests. =20 The mode used was ROS MF-7. The equipment used for the QSO= was as follows. Kenwood TS-440 to my LF-MF linear transverter pro= ducing the 137.000 kHz signal, followed by a tuned harmonic circuit= & buffer amplifier whose output was 274.000 kHz therefore at x2 dri= ve for the Class D Tx. The x2 signal is then divided by the Tx driver chain= in the normal way to provide 137.000 kHz to the PA. =20 This method should also work well using WSPR & other simil= ar modes. ********************************************* ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01CB1174.D01819B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Not RESRVED but a recommendation= ,  on=20 amateur radio bands CW is permitted throughout the band wherea data mo= des and=20 ssb are NOT
G3KEV
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Graham
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010= 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500= kHz ROS=20 beacon

Scotch Mist  . no  just= the =20 fog  of progress ... besides, the  frequency  slot&nb= sp;=20 is  reserved  for  data  only  ,
 
So  there  is no  po= ssibility of=20 qrm , unless  the  reference is to key clicks ?

Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon
<= /DIV>

So this mode is invisible, in that= case I and=20 other CW operators will not know it is there. No evasive action requ= ired to=20 avoid QRM to it or the reverse.
Wonderful news
What I saw and heard the other nigh= t was Scotch=20 Mist
g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Graham
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010= 8:46=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.50= 0 kHz ROS=20 beacon

''''for instance the French stn= =20 F5WK cannot hear you'''''
 
Well  , yes , that's the&nbs= p; point =20 of it  all  , no  noise, no  trace just = 100%=20 pure  digital  data rolling over the  land , like= the =20 un-seen  fog  of  progress 
 
IARU - R-1 plan .. 137.4 to 137.6=   digital=20 modes , with the note that  CW is 'not allowed'  =
 
I think the  test and = the =20 frequency  went fully  to  'to plan' and paves the= way =20 for a magnitudinal  increase in  data  use on 137= , to date=20 limited by bandwidth  to  psk31 , ros-mf  by = =20 design  occupying on 50%  of the  allowable = space=20 on  137  and 99% of the  100Hz  allocations&nb= sp;=20 for  500K. and  passing via  a  non linear&nbs= p; system=20 , how  long will  it before the  first  live&n= bsp;=20 data  qso  over the  pond ?
 
G .
 
 

Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.500 kHz ROS beacon

Gary
There are too many variables with= these=20 experiments for instance the French stn F5WK cannot hear you= but you=20 are S5 solid on 137.5 here at my qth
The RX stations antennas need to= be analyised=20 otherwise it misrepresents what you are doing.
Can u pse use frequencies below= 136.5 kcs=20 otherwise there is a problem with EU and Russian stations using th= e area 137=20 - 137.778 kcs for QRS acty.
also this is the DX window area= for the USA and=20 others.
73 de mal/g3kev
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Gary -=20 G4WGT
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 20= 10 4:31=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Re: 137.= 500 kHz ROS=20 beacon

Hi Mal,=20

Thank you for your report & comments. The mail you repl= ied to=20 gives all the details of equipment in use for the test beacon.

I would like to be able to have a QSO using morse but I hav= e to admit=20 to a complete loss of confidence as I have not used the mode for= 25 years=20 which was one year after I passed the test in 1984. Looking back= , letting=20 it go was a silly thing to do.

I do enjoy testing out these "weak signal" modes & in= the report=20 I received from Michel F5WK last night he wrote that he could no= t hear the=20 signal or even see it on SpecLab but he got a complete decode.= So as a=20 weak signal communication mode it works.

Just to elaborate on the antenna, it is a 12 metre base loa= ded=20 vertical with a small elevated inductor of 500uH at about 9 metr= es & a=20 1 x 3 metre capacity top with a 120uH spiral inductor. In my sma= ll garden=20 I have no space to go outwards only upwards.

73,

Gary - G4WGT.

On 20 June 2010 13:48, mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net>=20 wrote:
Gary
If that was you last nite on&= nbsp; 137.5=20 kcs you were strong enough for cw or qrs3 no need to stru= ggle with=20 decodes from elswhere.
also I had a qso with G3XIZ= this morning on=20 137.0 kcs and got 599, he was 569.
Not sure what antenna u were= using but=20 it was putting out a fair signal to this qth. Your radiators= are=20 probably acting as an antenna above earth.
 
de mal/g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----=
From= : Gary - G4WGT
Sent: Sunday, June 20= , 2010 12:07=20 PM
Subject: LF: 137.500= kHz ROS=20 beacon

    Hi LF,
Having successfully bench & on-air tested a x2 harm= onic=20 amplifier method of driving my G0MRF Class D LF transmitter,= I ran a=20 beacon last night (Saturday 19th) on 137.500 kHz.

An extract from my previous e-mail description is shown= at the=20 end.

Using the equipment & method described below, the= ERP from my=20 12 metre vertical antenna was around 150mW. The mode was ROS= MF-1, 100=20 Hz bandwidth.

I received the following report from Michel, F5WK in JN= 18HP, a=20 distance of 410 miles (661 kilometres) in daylight.

>> Not even a faint trace on a QRSS3 spectrum=20 but:

>> RX1: 19:23 @ 5.9 Hz: 9 <STOP> -37= =20 dB
>> RX1: 19:28 @ 5.4 Hz: O4WGT <STOP> -34= =20 dB
>> RX1: 19:33 @ 5.4 Hz: G4WGT <STOP> -31= dB

The x2 harmonic low level amplifier is a simple way of= driving a=20 Class D type of transmitter which employs a divide by 2 driv= e chain.=20 My limitation with multi tone drive is that my DDS VFO will= only=20 produce 2 frequencies ie. the main frequency & a CW/Rx= offset=20 which has previously limited me to 2 tones as with RTTY &= ; DFCW=20 modes.

Please bear in mind that it will not be suitable for mo= des like=20 PSK were tones are transmitted simultaneously.

At the moment the 2 small PCB's are precariously lying= on the=20 desk, when I have cased them I will publish the circuit &= ;=20 pictures.

73

Gary - G4WGT.
    ***********************************************
    After a few days experimenting & bench testing a met= hod of=20 driving my
    G0MRF Class D Tx on the 137.000 kHz band fro= m my=20 linear transverter I finally
    constructed a harmonic amp= lifier=20 producing a 274.000 kHz signal from 137.000
    kHz input.= An=20 "on-air" trial was conducted resulting in a QSO with
    Gr= aham G0NBD=20 on 137.000 kHz using ROS data mode software.
     
    = My thanks=20 to Graham for his ideas & tests.
     
    The mode= used was=20 ROS MF-7. The equipment used for the QSO was as
    follows= . Kenwood=20 TS-440 to my LF-MF linear transverter producing the
    137= .000 kHz=20 signal, followed by a tuned harmonic circuit &=20 buffer
    amplifier whose output was 274.000 kHz therefore= at x2=20 drive for the Class
    D Tx. The x2 signal is then divided= by the Tx=20 driver chain in the
    normal way to provide 137.000 kHz= to the=20 PA.
     
    This method should also work well using= WSPR &=20 other similar modes.
    *********************************************



=


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