Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dj09.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.19.187.145]) by air-ma03.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINMA034-b5134c0a8c163bf; Sat, 05 Jun 2010 13:40:38 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dj09.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id BDAAF380000AF; Sat, 5 Jun 2010 13:40:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1OKxL7-0001tI-Fn for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jun 2010 18:39:21 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1OKxL6-0001t9-FF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jun 2010 18:39:20 +0100 Received: from out1.ip05ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.241]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1OKxL3-00030H-Lq for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jun 2010 18:39:20 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvAFAM4oCkxcEYB//2dsb2JhbACBQ4Fai24DgwGMRnGtU5AahCluBA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.53,367,1272841200"; d="scan'208,217";a="301912231" Received: from unknown (HELO xphd97xgq27nyf) ([92.17.128.127]) by out1.ip05ir2.opaltelecom.net with SMTP; 05 Jun 2010 18:38:49 +0100 Message-ID: <003f01cb04d5$f36f64a0$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> From: "mal hamilton" To: References: <657E7065AC4C454AB63F6C7C2FF043F6@Black> , <003101cb04c2$0913cc10$0401a8c0@xphd97xgq27nyf> <1607287044.1492139.1275754813942.JavaMail.fmail@mwmweb034> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 18:38:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,HTML_TAG_EXIST_TBODY=0.126 Subject: LF: Re: Success with my new Ground Antenna on Dreamer's Band Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003C_01CB04DE.54FA9430" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039cdbc9d0e4c0a8c1364f9 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01CB04DE.54FA9430 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What are u aiming for with this system, 600m or 600km. g3kev ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Horst St=C3=B6cker=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 5:20 PM Subject: VLF: Success with my new Ground Antenna on Dreamer's Band Hello, the 800m Ground Antenna Test is still a future project - transmissio= ns planned on 23. to 25. July from the Erpeler Ley near Bonn. But today I did the second Ground Antenna Test at my home QTH. Two= copper rods of about 50cm were directed and splitted in the middle of= a 100m line. 10m of RG58 connect this point with the equipment in my= garage: torroid stepup transformer, 300 W car amplifier and my new co= mmunication test system as sweep oscillator betwen 8,7 an 8,9 kHz. After my disappointing first test with the 30m base I di not expect= too mauch. But the signal was audible in a range of 600m depending on= the environment. Horst DO1KHS/DI2AN ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ Von: mal hamilton Gesendet: 05.06.2010 17:16:12 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: VLF: Two-Way QSO on Dreamer's Band Gary What sort of strength are u receiving the Alpha signals This might give u an idea how strong amateur signals are likely to= be by comparison There is not much information available from UK stations about the= ir receiving capability de mal/g3kev ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary - G4WGT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 2:20 PM Subject: Re: VLF: Two-Way QSO on Dreamer's Band Marcus, Walter, LF,=20 Well done for your VLF 8.97 Hz 2 - way communication. Keep up the good work. Monitoring most of the time here but nothing seen as yet, one da= y I may see something. 73 Gary - G4WGT - North West England - IO83QO On 4 June 2010 21:59, Markus Vester wrote= : Dear LF, this morning, June 4th between 6 and 8 UT, Walter (DJ2LF) and= myself (DF6NM) were able to successfully conduct a two-way contact (a= ka "QSO") on 8.97 kHz. The distance between us is 20.2 km, well outsid= e the reactive near field zone (lamda / 2pi =3D 5.3 km). Both of us were using our small backyard Marconi antennas at= home, for transmit and receive. Walter's antenna has 260 pF at an est= imated effective height of about 5 m. He achieved about 370 mA current= , resulting in a radiated power of about 5 uW (EMRP). I also got 5 uW= from 270 mA into 240 pF at about 7 m. I resonated the antenna using= the same little "yoghurt coil" described a while ago, having 1.3 henr= y from 9 x 480 turns of 0.2 mm magnet wire, and a room-temperature DC= resistance of 820 ohms. Walter used a scaled up version of this coil,= about 25 cm diameter and 60 cm long, consisting of seven polypropylen= e household buckets inserted into one another. Each bucket has 460 tur= ns of 0.4 mm wire on it, about 320 ohms total DC resistance. Each of= us applied approximately 100 W of "RF" power from a car-HiFi amplifie= r. Reception was done by soundcard, without preamplification. We= set Spectrum Lab to 0.95 mHz FFT bandwidth, with noise blanking on,= and samplerate tracking based on the German 23.4 kHz MSK signal. We= chose to transmit 30 minute dashes, separated by 15 minute quiet inte= rvals to allow for FFT processing delay. We employed a special "micro-QSO" format, which was designed= to exchange the minimum single-bit report and confirmation in only th= ree turnovers, each containing a single dash. Station identification= was by frequency alone, with preassigned pairs (8969.92 / 8970.02 Hz= for DJ2LF, 8970.0 / 8970.1 Hz for DF6NM). Generally the lower frequen= cy was assigned to a negative response (ie. "not confirmed"), whereas= the upper one is positive ("received ok"). DF6NM started by transmitting a carrier on his lower frequency= , from 4:00 to 4:30 UT. This was indeed seen by DJ2LF, who replied on= his upper frequency from 4:45 to 5:15, reporting positive reception.= Then DF6NM confirmed reception on the upper frequency from 5:30 to 6:= 00. The whole procedure took two hours. Attached are screenshots from both sides. Unfortunately the QR= N level this morning was much worse than we had hoped for, with active= thunderstorms in South Italy, Poland and Belorussia. To my surprise,= our dashes still made it through and were unambiguously visible, with= an estimated SNR of 6 to 8 dB. Walter's signal can actually still be= seen between my own dashes on my VLF grabber http://www.mydarc.de/df6= nm/vlf/vlfgrabber.htm . As far as we know, this was probably the first two-way amateur= QSO on VLF, using truely radiated fields. Another dream came true... Best regards, Markus (DF6NM) =20 =20 NEU: WEB.DE DSL f=C3=BCr 19,99 EUR/mtl. und ohne Mindest-Laufz= eit! =20 http://produkte.web.de/go/02/=20 ------=_NextPart_000_003C_01CB04DE.54FA9430 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What are u aiming for with this syste= m, 600m or=20 600km.
g3kev
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010= 5:20=20 PM
Subject: VLF: Success with my= new Ground=20 Antenna on Dreamer's Band


<= SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #000000">
Von: mal hamilton <g3kevmal@talktalk.net>
Gesen= det:=20 05.06.2010 17:16:12
An:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Betreff: Re: VLF: Two-Way= QSO on=20 Dreamer's Band

Gary
What= sort of=20 strength are u receiving the Alpha signals
This= might give u=20 an idea how strong amateur signals are likely to be by=20 comparison
There= is not much=20 information available from UK stations about their receiving=20 capability
de=20 mal/g3kev
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 05,= 2010 2:20=20 PM
Subject: Re: VLF: Two-Way= QSO on=20 Dreamer's Band
Marcus, Walter, LF,=20
Well done for your VLF 8.97 Hz 2 - way communication.
Keep up the good work.
Monitoring most of the time here but nothing seen as yet,= one day I=20 may see something.
73
Gary - G4WGT - North West England - IO83QO

On 4 June 2010 21:59, Markus Vester <markusvester@ao= l.com>=20 wrote:
De= ar=20 LF,
 
th= is morning,=20 June 4th between 6 and 8 UT, Walter (DJ2LF) and myself (DF6NM)= were able=20 to successfully conduct a two-way contact (aka "QSO") on 8.97= kHz. The=20 distance between us is 20.2 km, well outside the reactive near= field=20 zone (lamda / 2pi =3D 5.3 km).
 
Bo= th of us=20 were using our small backyard Marconi antennas at home, for tr= ansmit and=20 receive. Walter's antenna has 260 pF at an estimated effective= height of=20 about 5 m. He achieved about 370 mA current, resulting in a ra= diated=20 power of about 5 uW (EMRP). I also got 5 uW from 270 mA into= 240 pF at=20 about 7 m. I resonated the antenna using the same little "yogh= urt coil"=20 described a while ago, having 1.3 henry from 9 x 480 turns of= 0.2 mm=20 magnet wire, and a room-temperature DC resistance of 820 ohms.= Walter=20 used a scaled up version of this coil, about 25 cm diameter an= d 60 cm=20 long, consisting of seven polypropylene household buckets inse= rted into=20 one another. Each bucket has 460 turns of 0.4 mm wire on it,= about 320=20 ohms total DC resistance. Each of us applied approximately 100= W of "RF"=20 power from a car-HiFi amplifier.
 
Re= ception was=20 done by soundcard, without preamplification. We set Spectrum= Lab to 0.95=20 mHz FFT bandwidth, with noise blanking on, and samplerate trac= king based=20 on the German 23.4 kHz MSK signal. We chose to transmit 30 min= ute=20 dashes, separated by 15 minute quiet intervals to allow for FF= T=20 processing delay.
 
We= employed a=20 special "micro-QSO" format, which was designed to exchange the= minimum=20 single-bit report and confirmation in only three turnovers, ea= ch=20 containing a single dash. Station identification was by freque= ncy alone,=20 with preassigned pairs (8969.92 / 8970.02 Hz for DJ2LF, 8970.0= / 8970.1=20 Hz for DF6NM). Generally the lower frequency was assigned to= a negative=20 response (ie. "not confirmed"), whereas the upper one is posit= ive=20 ("received ok").
 
DF= 6NM started=20 by transmitting a carrier on his lower frequency, from 4:00 to= 4:30 UT.=20 This was indeed seen by DJ2LF, who replied on his upper freque= ncy from=20 4:45 to 5:15, reporting positive reception. Then DF6NM confirm= ed=20 reception on the upper frequency from 5:30 to 6:00. The whole= procedure=20 took two hours.
 
At= tached are=20 screenshots from both sides. Unfortunately the QRN level this= morning=20 was much worse than we had hoped for, with active thunderstorm= s in South=20 Italy, Poland and Belorussia. To my surprise, our dashes= still made=20 it through and were unambiguously visible, with an estima= ted SNR of=20 6 to 8 dB. Walter's signal can actually still be seen bet= ween my=20 own dashes on my VLF grabber http= ://www.mydarc.de/df6nm/vlf/vlfgrabber.htm=20 .
 
As= far as we=20 know, this was probably the first two-way amateur QSO on VLF,= using=20 truely radiated fields. Another dream came true...
 
Be= st=20 regards,
Markus=20 (DF6NM)
  
3D""
NEU:=20 WEB.DE DSL f=C3=BCr 19,99 EUR/mtl. und ohne=20 Mindest-Laufzeit!   
http://produkte.web.de/= go/02/
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