Return-Path: Received: from mtain-dg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-dg05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.65.13]) by air-db09.mail.aol.com (v129.4) with ESMTP id MAILINDB092-86234c21b8f8193; Wed, 23 Jun 2010 03:34:16 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-dg05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id DCDBB38000AD2; Wed, 23 Jun 2010 03:34:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1ORKSN-0002n7-C0 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jun 2010 08:33:11 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ORKSM-0002my-J8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jun 2010 08:33:10 +0100 Received: from out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net ([62.24.128.240]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1ORKSK-00066B-V1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jun 2010 08:33:10 +0100 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Av0EAIxVIUxOkanH/2dsb2JhbACBQ51jccFVgluCQAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.53,465,1272841200"; d="scan'208,217";a="295021223" Received: from unknown (HELO laptopcore2) ([78.145.169.199]) by out1.ip04ir2.opaltelecom.net with ESMTP; 23 Jun 2010 08:33:02 +0100 From: "g3zjo" To: Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 08:32:59 +0100 Message-ID: <000001cb12a6$4ea3f470$0202a8c0@laptopcore2> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2616 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <0ECE5FE85EC44394BAECA33C98988E01@AGB> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2670 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: VLF QRP Earth mode: 5.1km DX tonight but no such thing as a free lunch Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01CB12AE.B06ACD70" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d410d4c21b8f45719 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CB12AE.B06ACD70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have in mind a Camping trip, go stay in a field near Roger and have a few contacts on WSPR and ROS. No need to take a radio, just stick the soundcard In/Out to a couple of ground stakes:-) Eddie -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Graham Sent: 22 June 2010 23:35 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: VLF QRP Earth mode: 5.1km DX tonight but no such thing as a free lunch Roger, Why not try ros mf-1 into the ground, that's based round 1 Khz ? no need for a time locked pc ? G .. From: Roger Lapthorn Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 11:10 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: VLF QRP Earth mode: 5.1km DX tonight but no such thing as a free lunch Second try at this post (without picture that may have been too large)...... Further tests today to work out how far a signal on 838Hz will propagate through the ground or air and how this happens. First thing I tried was to go along the same country lane to the south of the village as last evening at a distance of 4.2km (0.6km further than last night). Nothing, zero, ziltch, and disappointment. So, I then returned to the very same spot as last night (3.6km) and sure enough the QRSS3 signal was clearly visible on the Spectran display. This was with the loop pointing home across the fields. Then the crunch point: I put the loop on the ground flat on the road and the signal went up. So, this was pretty conclusive proof that the signal was being aided by pipework in the road. To check this, I moved 50m into a field and away from the road and tried listening/looking for the QRSS3 signal with the loop both flat on the ground and facing home - nothing at all. This was conclusive proof that, at this distance at least, conduction through pipes was helping the signal reach this far. Next test was to go to a different roadside location some 4km west of the QTH and try the same test again. Nothing copied at all, either with the loop vertical or horizontally on the ground. I repeated the same test on the way back towards home about 0.5km west of G6ALB's QTH, but again nothing seen. Before coming home, slightly disappointed, I ventured up along a fenland road where the soil is really dark peat. To my surprise, the signal was copied again at good strength on the roadside 4.1km west of the QTH with the loop facing the QTH. Again, I repeated the earlier test and placed the loop horizontally on the ground. The signal was SO strong that the Spectran trace turned red and I could clearly hear the QRSS3 signal by ear! A drive up a road called Lord's Ground Drove resulted in the signal still being copied well just beyond Lord's Ground Farm at a distance of 5.1km. At this point I phoned my wife at home and asked her to switch the TX over to 10wpm CW and the signal was recorded with Spectran and clearly audible with the narrow filters in. Using the crystal earpiece instead of the PC I was not able to hear the CW in the 50Hz noise. Listen to this recording at 5.1km from the TX but use narrow filters around 838Hz to hear the 10wpm beacon signal clearly. CONCLUSIONS 1. At local distances (up to 0.5km) the signal propagates by both conduction through the ground (aided by pipes in the ground) and by induction (proved by the orientation of the loop when well away from roads and pipes).. 2. At greater distances (3-5kms) the signal reaches its destination by conduction through the ground aided by pipes in the roads and with inductive coupling into the loop at the RX. 3. There is no evidence of induction playing a real (long distance) part in propagation at 5.1km distance. 4. When the signal is being "utility coupled" the direction with respect to the TX earth electrode pair (and loop formed in the ground) is not important. What matters more is whether there are metal pipes between the TX and RX locations; if these are not present then the signal will not be received, I think, at any great distance. There is some possibility that coupling may also be possible as a result of overhead cables, but this has not been tested. 5. Even allowing for the conduction aided by pipes, I am amazed that just a 4W TX into a 20m baseline earth electrode pair can be copied so well at 5.1km (and probably considerably further), and even more surprised that 10wpm CW copy was possible at this range. 6. "Utility coupling" aided VLF earth mode communications could be very viable over a range of at least 5kms. FURTHER WORK 1. Try an E-field probe at 5km and greater distance. It should reject 50Hz noise more and may work as well as the loop? 2. Try to establish the limit of true induction communications unaided by ground conduction paths. 3. Sea coast earth mode test with one electrode in the water and the other at the TX end, say, 100m inland from the water's edge. Just how far would you be able to receive the signal along the coast using another electrode pair or an induction loop? So, some useful further tests, but some disappointment. "There is no such thing as a free lunch", as they say. For real VLF work Stefan's true radiation experiments are where the action REALLY is. All good fun and I've learnt a lot. There's a screen shot of the received QRSS3 signal (strong!) plus the recording of the 10wpm CW signal at 5.1kms on my earth mode website . 73s Roger G3XBM -- http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/ http://www.g3xbm.co.uk http://www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm G3XBM GQRP 1678 ISWL G11088 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01CB12AE.B06ACD70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have in mind= a Camping trip, go stay in a field near Roger and have a few contacts on WSPR and ROS. No need to= take a radio, just stick the soundcard In/Out to a couple of ground stakesJ

 

Eddie

 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org] On Behalf Of G= raham
Sent: 22 June 2010 23:3= 5
To: rsgb_lf_group@black= sheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: VLF QR= P Earth mode: 5.1km DX tonight but no such thing as a free lunch=

 

Roger,

 

Why not&nb= sp; try  ros mf-1 into the  ground,  that's  based round  1 Khz = ; ? no need  for a time locked  pc  ?

 

G ..

 

Sent:= Tuesday, June 22, 2010 11:10 PM

Subject: LF: VLF QRP Earth mode: 5.1km DX tonight but no such thing as a free lunch

 

Second= try at this post (without picture that may have been too large)......

Further tests today to work out how far a signal on 838Hz will propaga= te through the ground or air and how this happens.   First thing I tried was to go along the same country lane to the south of the vill= age as last evening at a distance of 4.2km (0.6km further than last night).= Nothing, zero, ziltch, and disappointment.


So, I then returned to the very same spot as last night (3.6km) and su= re enough the QRSS3 signal was clearly visible on the Spectran display. This was= with the loop pointing home across the fields. Then the crunch point: I put the= loop on the ground fl= at on the road and the signal went up. So, this was pretty conclusive proof that the signal= was being aided by pipework in the road. To check this, I moved 50m into a field= and away from the road and tried listening/looking for the QRSS3 signal with th= e loop both flat on the ground and facing home - nothing at all. This was con= clusive proof that, at this distance at least, conduction through pipes was he= lping the signal reach this far.

Next test was to go to a different roadside location some 4km west of= the QTH and try the same test again. Nothing copied at all, either with the lo= op vertical or horizontally on the ground. I repeated the same test on th= e way back towards home about 0.5km west of G6ALB's QTH, but again nothing= seen.

Before coming home, slightly disappointed, I ventured up along a fenla= nd road where the soil is really dark peat. To my surprise, the signal was cop= ied again at good strength on the roadside 4= .1km west of the QTH with the loop facing the QTH. Again, I repeated the ea= rlier test and placed the loop horizontally on the ground. The signal was SO stro= ng that the Spectran trace turned red and I could clearly hear the QRSS3 signa= l by ear! 

A drive up a road called Lord's Ground Drove resulted in the signal st= ill being copied well just beyond Lord's Ground Farm at a distance of 5.1km. At this point I phoned= my wife at home and asked her to switch the TX over to 10wpm CW and the signal wa= s recorded with Spectran and clearly audible with the narrow filters in.= Using the crystal earpiece instead of the PC I was not able to hear the CW= in the 50Hz noise. Listen to this recording at 5.1km from the TX but use narrow filters around 838Hz to hear the 10wpm beacon signal clearly.
CONCLUSIONS

= 1.      At local distances (up to 0.5km) the signa= l propagates by both conduction through the ground (aided by pipes in th= e ground) and by induction (proved by the orientation of the loop when well away= from roads and pipes)..

= 2.      At greater distances (3-5kms) the signal= reaches its destination by conduction through the ground aided by pipes in the= roads and with inductive coupling into the loop at the RX.

= 3.      There is no evidence of induction playing= a real (long distance) part in propagation at 5.1km distance.

= 4.      When the signal is being "utility coupled" the direction with respect to the TX earth electrode pai= r (and loop formed in the ground) is not important. What matters more is whet= her there are metal pipes between the TX and RX locations; if these are not pres= ent then the signal will not be received, I think, at any great distance. There= is some possibility that coupling may also be possible as a result of overhead= cables, but this has not been tested.

= 5.      Even allowing for the conduction aided by= pipes, I am amazed that just a 4W TX into a 20m baseline earth electrode pair= can be copied so well at 5.1km (and probably considerably further), and even= more surprised that 10wpm CW copy was possible at this range.

= 6.      "Utility coupling" aided VLF ear= th mode communications could be very viable over a range of at least 5kms.

FURTHER WORK

= 1.      Try an E-field probe at 5km and greater di= stance. It should reject 50Hz noise more and may work as well as the loop?

= 2.      Try to establish the limit of true inducti= on communications unaided by ground conduction paths.

= 3.      Sea coast earth mode test with one electro= de in the water and the other at the TX end, say, 100m inland from the water's= edge. Just how far would you be able to receive the signal along the coast using= another electrode pair or an induction loop?

So, some useful further tests, but some disappointment. "There is no= such thing as a free lunch", as they say.  For real VLF work Stef= an's true radiation experiments are where the action REALLY is.

All good fun and I've learnt a lot. There's a screen shot of the recei= ved QRSS3 signal (strong!) plus the recording of the 10wpm CW signal at 5.1kms= on my earth mode website .

73s
Roger G3XBM


--
http://g3= xbm-qrp.blogspot.com/
http://www.g3xbm.= co.uk
http:/= /www.youtube.com/user/g3xbm
G3XBM    GQRP 1678      ISWL G11088

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