Return-Path: Received: from mtain-di01.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtain-di01.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.64.5]) by air-dd02.mail.aol.com (v128.3) with ESMTP id MAILINDD021-86084bc9bdd131; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 09:55:30 -0400 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [193.82.116.20]) by mtain-di01.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id CA32938000092; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 09:55:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1O38T2-0007LD-4s for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 14:53:52 +0100 Received: from [193.82.116.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1O38T1-0007L4-Gh for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 14:53:51 +0100 Received: from smtp104.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com ([66.196.96.80]) by relay1.thorcom.net with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1O38Sy-0001SF-BZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Apr 2010 14:53:51 +0100 Received: (qmail 9778 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2010 13:53:40 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=snet.net; h=Received:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:Reply-To:From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:X-Priority:X-MSMail-Priority:X-Mailer:In-Reply-To:Importance:X-MimeOLE; b=5o6KoMwOpVLBIHYcUmnFMrDqxIY3DgFTr6LITToN6xZYvynD5aJkItHa311H73Ssdk6c/A9iFQUKKWhpQDaEaN0lnNIGpCXkB01LjURjnhlAdmSe+dRWty+WLeyVpxmKXs4I17QLZEkCcpe0S6WWhIWSa4P9gUcpURTYKrDKonQ= ; Received: from MAINDESK (paulc@75.58.180.90 with login) by smtp104.sbc.mail.re3.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Apr 2010 06:53:39 -0700 PDT X-Yahoo-SMTP: .XXmOBOswBCkuxW404eTLsnd.RdCQPge3WAF X-YMail-OSG: tkCSut8VM1mct9SFdHuwBTSACsuJue.3ojTs7C1_UW4Y1YHMdrjHOSEoYD.Efa_uHTSyiDpUQPekA5_Zfq9FZqwZfNpCTYOp_KvDfaUex9jd_kFFx4gHWjq9zElF2kIP7bnP4wAN7koY04c.mC5Yl19Uvkqs.JAXvDjJHCmr979SoThhp9QVJ3RkIcFvEUGOlgV2JChWkXsnKojYxZsGY0y.hXOVygvWiCYzJ.u3Kv5Rc6d6Z8EpyFzdhgtOt2xhnEQKWR19RWcz0L68WBMSAFRwWT5f_qS7ZCicCp62cIq4t1TOTGGXAiNOqDiKee0hOZs81pkcYlJMiLrdX79G94EgVSek6_0JmDsJbxi4uIOqlRwHpqurLLu3gRDoKG5LoI3fzgyFFMblTu6D7gvNy491nDtCdrALiVh63Gx0na77hDcKv7gt0_hLLK2WHRJnt.9MGlyC4081u7Hz X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 From: "Paul A. Cianciolo" To: Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 09:53:41 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 DomainKey-Status: good (testing) X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Spam-Report: autolearn=disabled,DNS_FROM_RFC_WHOIS=0.879,HTML_MESSAGE=0.001,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001 Subject: RE: LF: Dreamers Band update from W1VLF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0037_01CADE13.DC4DC6B0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d40054bc9bdcf2f58 X-AOL-IP: 193.82.116.20 ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01CADE13.DC4DC6B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Markus Valued commentary as always. Plans are to continue making improvements in the station. What are your feeling about the ground at 9 KHz? Currently I am using 3 2 meter ground rods spaced 2 meters apart and 1 meter distant from the concrete basement wall of my shack. This setup is not optimum I understand and was never intended to be final ground system for my regular ham station. As a very quick and crude test I pounded an aluminum pole into the earth 2 meters deep near the 9 KHz coil. When this was connected to the existing ground there was a very small increase in the current meter. Antenna system impedance here is about 1250 Ohms with and antenna current of approx. 200 ma. Lots of work to do!!! I will make another post on grounds to the group as well. Thank you PauLC W1VLF -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Markus Vester Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 4:29 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Dreamers Band update from W1VLF Dear Paul and Jay, this is an excellent result, well done! The crossover between reactive nearfield (E ~ r^-3) and farfield (r^-1) occurs at lambda/2/pi = 5.3 km. As you seem to have quite a bit of margin there, your signal will be detectable very significantly beyond that. Assuming otherwise equal receive conditions, QRSS-120 should get you more than 6 times further than QRSS-3. Best wishes, Markus (DF6NM) ----- Original Message ----- From: Warren Ziegler To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 8:05 PM Subject: Re: LF: Dreamers Band update from W1VLF Paul, Great work! Nice looking coil! How much power can you crank through it? At 5kM, I believe that you are still in the near field (9kHz wavelength is 33km), so signal will fall off at the 3rd power of distance until you reach far-field conditions. -- 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 at 1:51 PM, Paul A. Cianciolo wrote: > Hello Folks, > > Today we made our first outdoor transmission on VLF. > > The system resonance forced the transmissions to take place on 8890 Hz at > least until I can get a variometer worked up. > > The distance is only 5 KM but the signal is quite good on QRSS3. > > I can only wonder how far the signal would go using QRSS 120??? > > Please comment if you can, this a great learning experience for me > > Thank you > > PauLC > W1VLF > > http://www.rescueelectronics.com/9-Kilohertz.html > ------=_NextPart_000_0037_01CADE13.DC4DC6B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
M= arkus=20
 
V= alued commentary=20 as always. Plans are to continue making improvements in the=20 station. 
 
W= hat are your=20 feeling about the ground at 9 KHz?
 
C= urrently I am=20 using 3   2 meter ground rods spaced 2 meters apart  an= d 1 meter=20 distant from the concrete basement wall of my shack.
 
T= his setup is not=20 optimum I understand and was never intended to be final ground system= for my=20 regular ham station.
 
A= s a very quick=20 and crude test I pounded an aluminum pole into the earth 2 meters deep= near the=20 9 KHz coil.
W= hen this was=20 connected to the existing ground there was a very small increase in th= e current=20 meter.
 
A= ntenna system=20 impedance here is about 1250 Ohms  with and antenna current of ap= prox. 200=20 ma.
L= ots of work to=20 do!!!
 
I= will make=20 another post on grounds to the group as well.
 
T= hank=20 you
 
PauLC
W1VLF
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Markus= =20 Vester
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 4:29 PM
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Dreamers Band= update=20 from W1VLF

Dear Paul and Jay,
 
this is an excellent result, well= done!=20
 
The crossover between reactive= nearfield (E=20 ~ r^-3) and farfield (r^-1) occurs at lambda/2/pi =3D 5.3= km. As=20 you seem to have quite a bit of margin there, your signal will= be=20 detectable very significantly beyond that. Assuming otherw= ise equal=20 receive conditions, QRSS-120 should get you more than 6 times furthe= r than=20 QRSS-3.
 
Best wishes,
Markus (DF6NM)
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Warre= n Ziegler=20
Sent: Friday, April 16, 201= 0 8:05=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Dreamers= Band update=20 from W1VLF

Paul,

    =   Great=20 work! Nice looking coil!  How much power can you crank throug= h=20 it?
At 5kM, I believe that you are still in the near field=20 (9kHz
wavelength is 33km), so signal will fall off at the 3rd= power=20 of
distance until you reach far-field conditions.

-- 73 Warren=20 K2ORS
         &nb= sp;     =20 WD2XGJ
         &n= bsp;     =20 WD2XSH/23
         = ;      =20 WE2XEB/2
         =       =20 WE2XGR/1


 at 1:51 PM, Paul A. Cianciolo <paulc@snet.net> wrote:
&= gt; Hello=20 Folks,
>
> Today we made our first outdoor transmissio= n on=20 VLF.
>
> The system resonance forced the transmissions= to take=20 place on 8890 Hz at
> least until I can get a variometer wor= ked=20 up.
>
> The distance is only 5 KM but the signal is qu= ite good=20 on QRSS3.
>
> I can only wonder how far the signal wou= ld go=20 using QRSS 120???
>
> Please comment if you can, this= a great=20 learning experience for me
>
> Thank you
>
&g= t;=20 PauLC
> W1VLF
>
> http://www.rescueelectronics.com= /9-Kilohertz.html
>
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